Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊

[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?


  • Total voters
    1,077


Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
29,716
Hove
I agree that May's actions have been daft, and she has had plenty of criticism on here for them. I now think that Corbyn refusing to talk is daft, so I'm criticising him too. It seems you find criticism of him unacceptable.

Actually not at all, I've posted this morning an article by Nick Cohen that goes a little further than just criticism.

I'm subtracting the personality from the position, hence I referred to the 'leader of the opposition'. I think many people are annoyed because they simply don't like the man, but that is irrelevant really.

If May has gone this far, ignored the wishes of the opposite benches for this long, she has to offer an olive branch of some description, otherwise it is just a stunt, "look at me, I'm consulting". As Simon Jenkins said in another piece I posted (I see you found it), she could set up a 1 issue coalition, possibly betray much of her own party, but it would be for the good of a Brexit to benefit the country.

At present we have an invite to talk with another vote in 2 weeks, without any concessions being offered. That is no way to start a negotiation, mediation, or discussion. You have to offer something.
 

Thunder Bolt

Ordinary Supporter
Have I missed some news?

Have we said we are going to have another referendum???

Or is this Blair still poking his smug nose in again?

Jacob Rees-Mogg and Nigel Farage advised we should have another referendum.
 

ManOfSussex

We wunt be druv
Apr 11, 2016
14,729
Rape of Hastings, Sussex
It is, but obviously some (world) leaders wouldn't care about that, so long as they get power. I wouldn't like to say what Corbyn wants or what he'd do, and I hope we never have to find out.

Okay, that's great and really interesting to hear. Thanks.
 
Last edited:

The Clamp

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jan 11, 2016
24,155
West is BEST
We leave on March 29th, that’s set in law,unless the establishment elite decide to break the law..


On our way.

That's just plain incorrect. This referendum was not legally binding. We can abandon Brexit anytime we like.
 


A1X

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Sep 1, 2017
17,423
Deepest, darkest Sussex
Change the law because you didn’t really like my vote?..

No, change the law out of a duty of care. Even ardent No Deal advocates in Parliament insist it needs to be prepared for and don't think it can be done through just crashing out in March. For a start the civil service and legislation is not in place, and nor is the infrastructure.

It works in your favour if you really value your vote being respected how you cast it because if Britain crashes out as you want then it'll go back to the EU very quickly to urgently reopen talks, and we'd be in a Norway solution by the summer would be my guess. Having had to pay off Norway to be allowed in.
 


ManOfSussex

We wunt be druv
Apr 11, 2016
14,729
Rape of Hastings, Sussex
Of all the misleading stats in this whole sorry charade, this one is one I always enjoy seeing pop up as it ignores the single most fundamental flaw with out entire voting system.

Let's say, for example, there is a Labour held constituency where the voter breakdown is like this;

Labour - 35%
Conservative - 30%
UKIP - 20%
Lib Dem - 10%
BNP - 5%

In that scenario, Labour wins the seat as they have the most votes. However, if all the Labour voters and all the Lib Dem voters vote Remain, and all the other voters vote Leave, then the seat result is a 55% win for Leave. But in here, not one of the Leave voters voted Labour, so it being a Labour held Leave seat is basically irrelevant as none of the leavers voted Labour. But it also shows that if that Labour MP backs Remain then there is actually nothing the Leave voters could do about that.

It's a simplistic analysis but it proves my point that the party holding a seat and the way it voted in the referendum are basically two separate things which don't really tally up, so that statistic is basically pointless.

You also have to factor into that people in Labour constituencies who voted leave in 2016 who don't vote in elections for any party.
 

Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
49,900
Goldstone
It's often said that Britain is split down the middle on Brexit. It isn't. The extremes have split from the centre, after decades of push-pull in a FPTP electoral system which sends political thought on both sides further towards the edge and eviscerates the centre in the process. When the pendulum swings, as it always does in the end, it swings a little further back the other way. It's pretty much inevitable when you allow a party with as little as 37pc of the vote to form a *majority* government.
I don't think we've been seeing this pendulum swing in our governments. After years of Tory rule, when Labour eventually got in it was with a right biased Labour government, and the Tory governments we've had since then have not exactly been to the right of the Tories.
 


A1X

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Sep 1, 2017
17,423
Deepest, darkest Sussex
[TWEET]1086182811760054274[/TWEET]
[TWEET]1086182966710231040[/TWEET]
[TWEET]1086183098461638657[/TWEET]
[TWEET]1086183302468374528[/TWEET]
[TWEET]1086183724524490755[/TWEET]
[TWEET]1086183909002493952[/TWEET]
 

ManOfSussex

We wunt be druv
Apr 11, 2016
14,729
Rape of Hastings, Sussex
Did anyone else see Newsnight last night? Nick Watt interviewing some northern woman who'd been at a 'Leave Means Leave' rally in London, who said it's all 'b******s', a conspiracy by remainers, David Davis should be PM and finished off by saying does he remember Oliver Cromwell and Enoch Powell.......................

What has happened to this country.
 

cunning fergus

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2009
4,736
Can we agree that agriculture needs to be maintained, here and in the rest of Europe? To lose it would make us fully dependent on imports and therefore vulnerable, to natural disaster and war in other parts of the world, or even trade disputes. The EU has tried different ways in which to ensure farmers can make a living, and protect the countryside at the same time, and every way has brought criticism and problems in some way. It would be fantastic to remove all subsidy, and one day we will get there, but opening the UK up to all imports without tariff as has been suggested by Mogg would kill UK farmers, removing subsidy with tariffs and other barriers might work, but only if farms become more intensive, and this is bad for the environment. The EU has problems, the CAP is one of them, but leaving it just changes one problem for a bigger one.
The EU and it's member states should work to find a better policy, we can look at any socialist regime in the world and find a problem policy.


I have no problem with supporting Agriculture and farmers generally however the CAP is a historic acronism which provides millions to rich landowners. As we know these landowners are very well connected if not part of the current political structure (Hesaltine, Duke of Wellington etc) therefore meaningful reform is unlikely.

Notwithstanding Mogg, i think Brexit would mean UK farmers would continue to be subsidised, and that would be appropriate for a period of time. We can look at the lessons of NZ to removing farming subsidies.

The key here is the UK will no longer be paying to protect farmers in 27 other countries, meaning a lot of produce should be cheaper. This would benefit UK consumers and therefore the poor. Further, it would also benefit farmers in developing countries who do not export to the EU due to EU tariffs.

The consequences of CAP on poor counties is another aspect of CAP that is unjustifiable. Basically the EU dumps surplus produce into Africa at prices local farmers cannot compete with, this means their markets are continually depresed.

Dont get me wrong my primary concern is UK consumers, the consequences for Africa is secondary, however it proves that CAP is loaded against the poor in the UK, EU and elsewhere to the benefit of rich landowners. Of all of the aspects of the EU I despise, CAP is up there, it is 40% of the EU budget, and it’s indefensible in its effect on the poor. I’m saddened when even the fair minded can’t see that.
 


Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
10,859
Crawley
Yes, I find it puzzling that so many are still saying it would be difficult / would split the vote / etc.

You have a referendum that has two questions:
1 - do you want to leave / stay?
2 - if the outcome of the referendum on Q1 is to leave, then which option would you prefer: Mays deal / no deal / whatever else is on offer at that point?

This way, whichever way you vote, you can then have a say on what sort of leave deal you want if the vote is to leave.

In your method, to get the version of leave you want you have to risk having the type of leave that you think could be worse than remaining, and what you would probably end up with in a leave result, is many remainers voting for a norway type deal as their leave option, whereas far fewer of the people that actually want to leave think that is the way to go, and would rather remain than have that type of Leave. The result would be that a large majority would agree that remaining was preferable to this type of leave, but we do it anyway.
 

The Clamp

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jan 11, 2016
24,155
West is BEST
If Leavers had any sense (they don't) they'd be begging for a second referendum. It's the only chance they have for getting anywhere remotely near what they thought they were voting for. The only other options are no deal (simply should not happen) or a complete abandonment of Brexit. I'm for abandoning the whole thing. I think the public are too stupid to get it right on a second referendum.

But Leavers famously act in their own worst interests.
 


Kinky Gerbil

Im The Scatman
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 16, 2003
57,763
hassocks
Boris Johnson speech coming up.

I’m sure it’s full of plausible answers and solutions and not more unicorns.

He knows his dreams of being PM are all but dead.
 

Albion and Premier League latest from Sky Sports

Paying the bills

Latest Discussions

Paying the bills

Paying the bills

Paying the bills


Top
Link Here