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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?


  • Total voters
    1,077


hans kraay fan club

The voice of reason.
Helpful Moderator
Mar 16, 2005
60,981
Chandlers Ford
I am not playing a game....

I was simply using the petition, as a poster, was suggesting my opinion was extreme. I was showing how many extreme people there are in the UK in his/her eyes.

About 7% as many, as there are right-minded people in favour of a new vote, judging by those two petitions....
 

hans kraay fan club

The voice of reason.
Helpful Moderator
Mar 16, 2005
60,981
Chandlers Ford
I have explained why a second referendum would not work. Leave voters would refuse to vote in protest. The turnout would be too low to be democratic.

Leave voters refusing to vote, in protest, would be great.

I'm all for that suggestion.
 


Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
11,546
Cumbria
I have explained why a second referendum would not work. Leave voters would refuse to vote in protest. The turnout would be too low to be democratic.

Really? Leave voters would refuse to vote and therefore defeat their own aims?

If the referendum was a two-parter, ie: ''Remain or Leave', and if the outcome is leave then with 'this deal or no deal'' it would be just about the most democratic process possible. If the vote was still to leave, then remainers would more than likely accept it as this time everyone has more idea of what it all means and still want to go ahead, and if the secondary part ends up being 'leave with May's deal' then I very much suspect Parliament would push it through. If, on the other hand past leave voters have now seen what it actually means and change their minds to vote remain - then that would also be a democratic outcome.

Why would leave voters refuse to vote in protest when they would have the big chance to not only vote leave, but to also say what sort of leave they mean?
 

A1X

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Sep 1, 2017
17,423
Deepest, darkest Sussex
Guess what when you lose you should be ignored.

That's the antithesis of democracy and displays a fundamental misunderstanding of the role of Government. Most left this sort of attitude behind them in the school playground.
 


Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
49,900
Goldstone
So we can agree to disagree on the subject of the no deal negotiation strategy, but a good discussion and I respect you views.
Ok.
However, you are clearly interested or believe in having a strong negotiating position, and yet the leader of the opposition should walk in without one? And that is childish? I don't get the logic.
He can walk in with one, but he won't even walk in. He isn't in government and isn't even at the table. How is it helpful to the country if he won't even go and talk?

Labour have said since the election they favoured a customs union / single market style route. There has been no offer of any discussion even though May has known this from the moment the GE result was announced, that her own party would be split and she would have to rely on votes from across the house to get any deal through. But still she has ploughed on with her red lines in the sand, pandering to a minority in the house not the majority, and not offering any talks or concessions. Then suddenly she wants a chat with the leader of the opposition, after it has got this far, after she postponed the first vote, another pointless time wasting exercise, and Corbyn is childish. Remarkable.
I agree that May's actions have been daft, and she has had plenty of criticism on here for them. I now think that Corbyn refusing to talk is daft, so I'm criticising him too. It seems you find criticism of him unacceptable.
 

A1X

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Sep 1, 2017
17,423
Deepest, darkest Sussex
This short selling practice you dislike and it’s affect on the lives of ordinary people..........can you recall George Soros and how he made over a billion on Britain’s exit from the ERM?

He must be the living embodiment of the very “worst sort of tossers” to quote you.......or maybe not?

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/pol...rexit-campaign-best-for-britain-a3809821.html

Capitalists eh?

Then George Soros is a tosser too. Sorry I don't live my life on the idea of "good guys vs bad guys".
 


A1X

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Sep 1, 2017
17,423
Deepest, darkest Sussex
We leave on March 29th, that’s set in law,unless the establishment elite decide to break the law..

Most would say change the law. Changing a law is not breaking it.
 

Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
10,859
Crawley
Oops, I meant Leave options

Got ya.
The point is though, that if most leave voters would rather remain than have a Brexit that didn't meet their demands, it would be more democratic to remain than have a Brexit that very few want. There is no Leave position that can deliver all the promises made in the referendum, so which promises do you drop?
 


D

Deleted member 2719

Guest
Have I missed some news?

Have we said we are going to have another referendum???

Or is this Blair still poking his smug nose in again?
 

A1X

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Sep 1, 2017
17,423
Deepest, darkest Sussex
61% of all Labour MPs elected in 2017 are MPs who have a seat in constituencies that voted to Leave.

Of all the misleading stats in this whole sorry charade, this one is one I always enjoy seeing pop up as it ignores the single most fundamental flaw with our entire voting system.

Let's say, for example, there is a Labour held constituency where the voter breakdown is like this;

Labour - 35%
Conservative - 30%
UKIP - 20%
Lib Dem - 10%
BNP - 5%

In that scenario, Labour wins the seat as they have the most votes. However, if all the Labour voters and all the Lib Dem voters vote Remain, and all the other voters vote Leave, then the seat result is a 55% win for Leave. But in here, not one of the Leave voters voted Labour, so it being a Labour held Leave seat is basically irrelevant as none of the leavers voted Labour. But it also shows that if that Labour MP backs Remain then there is actually nothing the Leave voters could do about that.

It's a simplistic analysis but it proves my point that the party holding a seat and the way it voted in the referendum are basically two separate things which don't really tally up, so that statistic is basically pointless.
 
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Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
11,546
Cumbria
The problem is that, in theory, we could a result like 31% remain and 23% for each of the three remain options so Remain wins, even though more than twice as many people wanted to leave - a complete distortion of people's wishes.


That's why a second referendum is a terrible idea, it's just going to muddy the waters some more


Yes, I find it puzzling that so many are still saying it would be difficult / would split the vote / etc.

You have a referendum that has two questions:
1 - do you want to leave / stay?
2 - if the outcome of the referendum on Q1 is to leave, then which option would you prefer: Mays deal / no deal / whatever else is on offer at that point?

This way, whichever way you vote, you can then have a say on what sort of leave deal you want if the vote is to leave.
 


Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
49,900
Goldstone
It's a hell of a hospital pass to want to receive though, hence I still have my very strong doubts it's what he actually wants.
It is, but obviously some (world) leaders wouldn't care about that, so long as they get power. I wouldn't like to say what Corbyn wants or what he'd do, and I hope we never have to find out.
 

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