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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?


  • Total voters
    1,077


WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 10, 2003
25,549
therein lies the problem, the MPs dont feel they can ignore the referendum since most of them are in seats that voted to leave, even though they would prefer to remain. and i would hazard a guess that dynamic would not change much in a 2nd referendum, a few percent swing nationally would likely be focused in areas or still return majority leave on seat by seat basis.

so, should we accept representative democracy and ask the MPs to vote with their conscience, or vote according to their local electorate?

But it's not that simple is it ? If they vote according to their electorate and the local electorate voted leave, what should they vote for ?

TM's deal
No deal
Norway
Canada

which one did the leave voters in their constituency want ?
 

Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,320
Uffern
so, should we accept representative democracy and ask the MPs to vote with their conscience, or vote according to their local electorate?

If they vote according to the local electorate, why do we need to have MPs. Every decision that has to be made, could be decided like X Factor or Strictly. People could vote via an app or online and the government wouldn't have to be elected - the civil service could just implement people's decisions.

Or, we have what we have now, where MPs can considered decisions and decide on what's best for the country (as I genuinely believe most of them do).

I've quoted Burke's dictum before but it's worth quoting again as it's a fundamental principle of representative democracy "... authoritative instructions; mandates issued, which the member is bound blindly and implicitly to obey, to vote, and to argue for, though contrary to the clearest conviction of his judgment and conscience,--these are things utterly unknown to the laws of this land, and which arise from a fundamental mistake of the whole order and tenor of our constitution."
 

Two Professors

Two Mad Professors
Jul 13, 2009
7,617
Multicultural Brum
If they vote according to the local electorate, why do we need to have MPs. Every decision that has to be made, could be decided like X Factor or Strictly. People could vote via an app or online and the government wouldn't have to be elected - the civil service could just implement people's decisions.

Or, we have what we have now, where MPs can considered decisions and decide on what's best for the country (as I genuinely believe most of them do).

I've quoted Burke's dictum before but it's worth quoting again as it's a fundamental principle of representative democracy "... authoritative instructions; mandates issued, which the member is bound blindly and implicitly to obey, to vote, and to argue for, though contrary to the clearest conviction of his judgment and conscience,--these are things utterly unknown to the laws of this land, and which arise from a fundamental mistake of the whole order and tenor of our constitution."

But MP's voting Remain are mainly interested in keeping the Gravy Train in operation for when they get de-selected or voted out,not the good of the country.We are not ordering them to commit mass murder,or genocide,just follow the electorate's vote to Leave.
 

daveinplzen

New member
Aug 31, 2018
2,846
But MP's voting Remain are mainly interested in keeping the Gravy Train in operation for when they get de-selected or voted out,not the good of the country.We are not ordering them to commit mass murder,or genocide,just follow the electorate's vote to Leave.

Is this 'gravy train' a different train to which Brexit MPs are on?
What sort of leave is that incidentally? TMays leave, no deal, soft Brexit?
 


Two Professors

Two Mad Professors
Jul 13, 2009
7,617
Multicultural Brum
Is this 'gravy train' a different train to which Brexit MPs are on?
What sort of leave is that incidentally? TMays leave, no deal, soft Brexit?

The EU Gravy Train,with the non-auditable expense accounts.The 'Leave' is leave the EU,however it happens.All these silly little labels added on to Leave are meaningless babble.It's like pregnancy,no shades like soft pregnancy,Norway pregnancy,just a little bit pregnant,it's either Leave or Remain,and the will of the people was to Leave.
 

Lincoln Imp

Well-known member
Feb 2, 2009
5,964
But MP's voting Remain are mainly interested in keeping the Gravy Train in operation for when they get de-selected or voted out,not the good of the country.We are not ordering them to commit mass murder,or genocide,just follow the electorate's vote to Leave.

I'd always assumed that MPs who have traditionally supported British membership did so for entirely laudable reasons, such as a belief that it best served opportunities for young people or the economic wellbeing of the country. You say that most of them simply want a ride on the gravy train after they leave office. Have you any evidence of this? Stats for the number of ex-MPs currently working for the EU perhaps...
 


Questions

Habitual User
Oct 18, 2006
24,652
Worthing
If Slartibartfast had been on the Brexit negotiating team we would most certainly have gone down the ‘Norway Option’ route and have recieved some of their lovely fjords in the deal.

Then there was the Canada option - I don’t even know where to begin with that one.
 

Two Professors

Two Mad Professors
Jul 13, 2009
7,617
Multicultural Brum
I'd always assumed that MPs who have traditionally supported British membership did so for entirely laudable reasons, such as a belief that it best served opportunities for young people or the economic wellbeing of the country. You say that most of them simply want a ride on the gravy train after they leave office. Have you any evidence of this? Stats for the number of ex-MPs currently working for the EU perhaps...

Have you got any evidence of their laudable reasons?Remember you are talking about British MP's.If they are concerned for young people,why are they trying to keep us in the youth unemployment blackspot called the EU?
 

pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
I really don't know how else to say this.

Because they are very different, neither one of them has a majority in parliament and no-one knows which one the electorate preferred as it was never asked.

So which one should we 'get on with' then ?

I stupidly assumed that the referendum was Leave or Stay, with details left to the experts. When I vote in an election, I don't say I'm voting Monster Raving Looney but I want this, that and t'other. Compromise is the order of the day, whilst accepting que sera sera.

Now that IS easy to understand.


Article 50 is quite clear, there will either be a negotiated deal to decide on or the treaties will cease to apply and we exit with no deal.
Parliament gave the decision to Leave or Remain to the people, Parliament was given an instruction to Leave,This has been decided. It is the job of the executive and parliament to sort out the business of leaving.
[MENTION=35196]Is it PotG?[/MENTION] is correct and so are you,it is not the job of the people to decide the outcome of Leaving via the Article 50 process, the voters have not been asked or instructed to decided how we Leave the EU, only that we should Leave
If parliament fails and cannot get its act together to decide how we Leave, either with the deal that has been negotiated and is on the table or with no deal then by all means put that decision in the hands of the people via a referendum and take Parliament deciding out of the equation. They can simply enact the instruction they are given.

A/ Leave the EU with the final negotiated deal
Or
B/ Leave the EU with no deal

Bring it on.
Still want the people to decide how we Leave or do you want Parliament to do it.?
 


daveinplzen

New member
Aug 31, 2018
2,846
But MP's voting Remain are mainly interested in keeping the Gravy Train in operation for when they get de-selected or voted out,not the good of the country.We are not ordering them to commit mass murder,or genocide,just follow the electorate's vote to Leave.


So, the electorate voted to hurt the country for decades with a 'no deal'. Is that what they wanted? Is that what you want? Really? Brexiteers complain that they are called stupid. You're convincing me. Thanks.
 

Kinky Gerbil

Im The Scatman
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 16, 2003
57,763
hassocks
Iain Duncan Smith is now threatening the #EU - The #EU now has a decision to make "if you want a deal you'd better damn well step up to the plate"

That will help....

Project blame, he knows full well the EU have all the cards - even more so after a failed coup.
 

Guinness Boy

Tofu eating wokerati
Helpful Moderator
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 23, 2003
33,688
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
BrExit - the countdown to 11PM GMT on Friday 29th of March 2019

But MP's voting Remain are mainly interested in keeping the Gravy Train in operation for when they get de-selected or voted out,not the good of the country.We are not ordering them to commit mass murder,or genocide,just follow the electorate's vote to Leave.

You mean the gravy train that Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson’s father were on? That one?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 


sir albion

New member
Jan 6, 2007
13,055
SWINDON
Iain Duncan Smith is now threatening the #EU - The #EU now has a decision to make "if you want a deal you'd better damn well step up to the plate"

That will help....

Project blame, he knows full well the EU have all the cards - even more so after a failed coup.
Maybe that's why people don't like the EU...Let's be honest it really is dominated by Germany,France and Brussels and the rest just do as they're told !!

Good riddance:)
 

Thunder Bolt

Ordinary Supporter
Iain Duncan Smith is now threatening the #EU - The #EU now has a decision to make "if you want a deal you'd better damn well step up to the plate"

That will help....

Project blame, he knows full well the EU have all the cards - even more so after a failed coup.

It's all posturing to his Tory mates. Look at me, I can shout at the Europeans.
 



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