[Politics] Brexit

Baldseagull · Jul 29, 2018

GT49er said:
To be fair, that's probably one of the most sensible contributions from a remainer for several hundred posts. Yes, we want out; maybe not an easy ride, but of course not nearly as difficult as Project Fear lied to us. The Government asked us what we wanted - we, the majority, told them; now it's up to the Government to deliver.
Incredibly, some desperate remoaners are even deluded enough to think that everybody who voted leave should have to come up with a detailed plan on how the leaving should be facilitated. So presumably they must think everybody who votes for tax cuts and the Tories in a General Election is required, personally and individually, to come up with an action plan on how the Government should actually reduce taxes..............

....................oh! That doesn't happen, does it..................

Thanks for the backhanded compliment. I don't expect you or any other leaver to have a detailed plan, there is no possible plan to deliver an exit that gives us the things promised by the Leave campaign, I just hoped less of you would still believe it was.

Baldseagull · Jul 29, 2018

daveinprague said:
Not sure you read that correctly

It's the parody.

daveinprague · Jul 29, 2018

Baldseagull said:
It's the parody.

PPF needs a parody?

GT49er · Jul 29, 2018

larus said:
And Hammond - no planning for No Deal from the treasury.
Plus Olly Robbins in effect, running the negotiations. At leat Teresa the Appeaser has had the courtesy to make this official now.

You can be certain that the establishment will be ramping up Project Fear over the next 6 months. There’s reports that the government has produced 70 technical reports which highlight the impact to the UK, but ignores the impact to the EU.

All we can hope is that the groundswell of anger from the leave voters feeds back to their MPs and they tell her that her capitulation to the EU is unacceptable. She is a disaster - always has been and as a natural Tory voter, I’ve never liked her. She needs removing asap.

Agree she was a crap Home Secretary - but removing her? No - that would mean her replacement would be a remoaner who wouldn't (unlike TM, to be fair) try to implement the will of the people - at least she's trying. OK, her political ambitions may have lead her to getting to be PM, but she has taken on one f*ck of a task - pushing through Brexit with almost every time-server, Lords and commons alike, hell bent on f*ck*n' it up, by fair means or (preferably) foul.

The Clamp · Jul 29, 2018

GT49er said:
Agree she was a crap Home Secretary - but removing her? No - that would mean her replacement would be a remoaner who wasn't (unlike TM, to be fair) wouldn't try to implement the will of the people - at least she's trying. OK, her political ambitions may have lead her to getting to be PM, but she has taken on one f*ck of a task - pushing through Brexit with almost every time-server, Lords and commons alike, hell bent on f*ck*n' it up, by fair means or (preferably) foul.

On one hand we have leavers blaming May for ballsing it up, then it's not May to blame but the Lords/Commons, then Remain voters. As predicted, EVERYONE but leave voters are to blame. Do you not remotely acknowledge that it makes your mob seem very bitter? You have kind of lost the last little bit of respect anyone had for you by refusing outright to take any responsibility or admit your vote went some way to causing this mess. You just look silly now.

GT49er · Jul 29, 2018

Baldseagull said:
Thanks for the backhanded compliment. I don't expect you or any other leaver to have a detailed plan, there is no possible plan to deliver an exit that gives us the things promised by the Leave campaign, I just hoped less of you would still believe it was.

Fair enough - but some of your fellow remainers have been loud and aggressive (and thereby not doing much for their cause) on here by demanding that each of those of us who voted leave should now come up with a detailed plan. Both campaigns bullshitted like buggery, most people recognised that - yet still a majority of us voted that we wanted no part of the EU. I have yet to hear an explanation by remainers on NSC of that fact (at least, not one that doesn't use the words, 'thick, stupid, ignorant, old, right wing or racist' (randomly select any one or more)).

Juan Albion · Jul 30, 2018

Has anyone actually agreed what Brexit means yet?

Albion my Albion · Jul 30, 2018

926 hours and 38 minutes.

Blue3 · Jul 30, 2018

GT49er said:
I'm sure Theresa May will be fascinated to learn that in your world she was a vote leave campaigner.

The negotiations until last week were being led by David Davis and then shortly by Dominic Rabb both leavers

Kinky Gerbil · Jul 30, 2018

Blue3 said:
The negotiations until last week were being led by David Davis and then shortly by Dominic Rabb both leavers

Past week or so we are starting to see some of the leaver MPs making sounds about it not going to be as good as promised....

They are also the ones mentioning stockpiling.

Blue3 · Jul 30, 2018

Kinky Gerbils said:
Past week or so we are starting to see some of the leaver MPs making sounds about it not going to be as good as promised....

They are also the ones mentioning stockpiling.

Indeed even arch Brexiteer Reese Mogs said in an interview it could be 50 years until we see the benifit of Brexit,

Meanwhile it was announced today that Frankfurt is benifiting from an exodus of work from the city of London 1,500 jobs have gone with another 1,000 to follow this year and if negotiations are not successful in total 15,000 jobs are at risk.

I heard the other day that jobs from the banking industry as a whole 5,000 left the UK in the past two years

Kinky Gerbil · Jul 30, 2018

Blue3 said:
Indeed even arch Brexiteer Reese Mogs said in an interview it could be 50 years until we see the benifit of Brexit,

Meanwhile it was announced today that Frankfurt is benifiting from an exodus of work from the city of London 1,500 jobs have gone with another 1,000 to follow this year and if negotiations are not successful in total 15,000 jobs are at risk.

I heard the other day that jobs from the banking industry as a whole 5,000 left the UK in the past two years

Farage admitting food standards likely to be lower.

All good news

Deleted member 22389 · Jul 30, 2018

The Clamp said:
Cannot remember who it was on here yesterday who scoffed at my assertion that there is a far right wing movement trying to gain traction in Europe. Well, I think this goes some way to supporting that assertion. I'm sure there will be some that dismiss this as Project Fear but in my opinion it needs monitoring. This kind of co-ordinated infiltration takes advantage of the weaknesses in the democratic system and basically uses democracy against itself to gain power.
It could of course all fail and be a storm in a teacup. Or it could be the genesis of something really rather nasty. The people involved and their tactics certainly raise some red flags.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/29/farage-bannon-populists-eu-election

Of course, we must all bear in mind that it is rent-a-gob Nigel Farage who is announcing this and apart from helping to **** up the UK he is pretty much a non-entity. But then many henious sorts began as ineffectual no-marks.

There is no plan. May be the politicians and the EU should learn to listen to the concerns of people instead of trying to shut people down.

Garry Nelson's teacher · Jul 30, 2018

"You can be certain that the establishment will be ramping up Project Fear over the next 6 months. There’s reports that the government has produced 70 technical reports which highlight the impact to the UK, but ignores the impact to the EU".

This is a bit of an odd one. Why on earth should our government by issuing technical notices on the impact on the EU?? It's got (more than) enough on its plate trying to look at our own country's problems rather than concern itself with 27 other nations. I think there's a bit of barrel scraping going on here?

Deleted member 22389 · Jul 30, 2018

Garry Nelson's teacher said:
"You can be certain that the establishment will be ramping up Project Fear over the next 6 months. There’s reports that the government has produced 70 technical reports which highlight the impact to the UK, but ignores the impact to the EU".

This is a bit of an odd one. Why on earth should our government by issuing technical notices on the impact on the EU?? It's got (more than) enough on its plate trying to look at our own country's problems rather than concern itself with 27 other nations. I think there's a bit of barrel scraping going on here?

It's how Remainers interpret it. Most likely something harmless will get completely twisted, pushed out on Twatter, try to cause panic and try and to make people feel guilty for voting Leave. It's not going to work with me or many others.

Garry Nelson's teacher · Jul 30, 2018

larus said:
Are you totally divorced from reality? You think Dominic Rabb is the lead negotiator for Brexit? Well, if you think that then the rest of your post is irrelevant. May I politely suggest that you read up on what his role is, on Olly Robins (and hence, once of the main reasons why David Davis felt forced to resign), and on what TM has said her role will be.

We’ve had Hammond in the treasury not preparing for No Deal.
We’ve got Olly Robbins (a remainer civil servant) doing the negotiations (so much for parliamentary democracy eh!.
And TM now will drive the rest of the negotiation process.

Not a Brexiteer in sight.

Who do you want? Nigel Farage? Or to trawl through the entire civil service asking for Brexiteers only to apply for the job? Or maybe ask a mob of pitch-fork wielding members of UKIP to rock-up to Brussels and take over? I do agree with you that May (probably best characterised as a reluctant Remainer who kept her head well under the parapet during the campaign) could be seen as 'undermining' her Brexiteer colleague Davis in their original negotiations (we are all still in the dark about the details), but she has that prerogative.

If you look for a conspiracy you'll always find one. I think it's mainly a good old-fashioned cock-up of epic proportions that some of us saw coming (although not in its full majesty).

Garry Nelson's teacher · Jul 30, 2018

bashlsdir said:
It's how Remainers interpret it. Most likely something harmless will get completely twisted, pushed out on Twatter, try to cause panic and try and to make people feel guilty for voting Leave. It's not going to work with me or many others.

Perhaps you are right. But I think you have to accept that there were unforeseen consequences of the vote to Leave and that

a) some are these are not good (for anyone: there are no winners)
b) many of them are very technical and maybe not easy to grasp
c) some of these are going to be brought to our attention by organisations that are charged with dealing with them and
d) there's a bit of a natural temptation for some Remainers to 'milk' this a bit (or a lot or not at all) and file it under 'you lot asked for this' (of course you DIDN'T necessarily ask for any of these specific consequences but it would be refreshing for a Leaver to admit that they really don't feel comfortable with some of them)

But no-one is expecting you to say 'sorry' and if they are then I suspect they are wasting their time.

WATFORD zero · Jul 30, 2018

bashlsdir said:
There is no plan. May be the politicians and the EU should learn to listen to the concerns of people instead of trying to shut people down.

So if i came up to you and told you I was really good at finance and could double your money if you gave it all to me, would you ?

Or would you ask me what my plan was to double your money ?

And, if people told you you were very naive to believe me and that I was lieing, would you listen to their advice, or would you listen to me tell you they were trying to scare you with exaggerated stories ?

Very simply, you liked what you were told so much, you didn't even think to ask if there was a plan before you voted :shrug:

WATFORD zero · Jul 30, 2018

GT49er said:
Fair enough - but some of your fellow remainers have been loud and aggressive (and thereby not doing much for their cause) on here by demanding that each of those of us who voted leave should now come up with a detailed plan.

No. All you needed to do was simply ask if there was a plan and take a look at it ?

After all, how could you list the benefits of something if there was no plan for how and what it was going to be done ?

WATFORD zero · Jul 30, 2018

If there was this wonderful Brexit opportunity available that would do everything that all Brexiteers wanted, why wouldn't Theresa May have taken it and become a national hero who would go down in history for all the right reasons ?

Before the referendum, you were told that there were only ever 2 options.

Softest of soft Brexit.
WTO 'no deal' - aka 'Project Fear'

And guess what ? 2 and a bit years later, absolutely nothing has changed and there's still only two options :facepalm:

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