[Politics] Brexit

Two Professors · Jun 21, 2016

5ways said:
Show me a study that says there is no benefit from immigration, or that immigrants stretch services. They don't. They use less services than Brits, and they are net contributors to the UK treasury. These Spanish kids working in bars in Brighton and Polish builders in Angel pay into the system and take very little out. They subsidise British people's services.

Your ignore that we need immigrants to pay down the deficit not increase it.

So where do the Spanish kids working in bars etc go for their medical and dental care?The specially EU funded health centre built onto the Royal Sussex,with extra EU funded staff?Don't talk so daft.The reason most of those Spanish kids are here is because of the 50% youth unemployment in their country caused by their membership of the EU and the Euro.

Two Professors · Jun 21, 2016

5ways said:
nouriel roubini ‏@nouriel 6 hil y a 6 heures voir la traduction
brexit would cause significant damage to the uk economy & to the employment & well being of britons. The uk is much better off inside the eu

nouriel roubini ‏@nouriel 6 hil y a 6 heures voir la traduction
brexit could stall the uk economy and tip it into a recession as the shock to business and consumer confidence could be severe

nouriel roubini ‏@nouriel 6 hil y a 6 heures voir la traduction
the uk - having large twin current account & fiscal deficits - may risk a sharp currency fall & a sudden stop of capital following brexit

this guy predicted the 2007 crash btw.

Larry summers: Britain leaving the eu would mark the end of an era during which british opinion mattered

http://uk.businessinsider.com/summe...n-would-have-terrible-impact-2015-5?r=us&ir=t

whooooooo?

Two Professors · Jun 21, 2016

This cartoon is the best yet:

Jim in the West · Jun 21, 2016

East Preston Gull said:
Staying in the EU seems to be wonderful for the well heeled of society and the young single university educated electorate. I don't blame them at all. We are sold the line that we can travel freely and work in 27 other countries, marvellous times for all and a great experience. How is the EU freedom of movement good for the normal families of Great Britain who's are on low wages and work in supermarkets, DIY stores, Clothes shops. I can't see them jumping for joy at the chance to uproot their family to work on the checkout at the Austrian version of Tescos. The federal European Utopia is only beneficial to the the bean counters and the people who regulate the bean counters it is not beneficial to the majority of the UK.
For that reason, I am out.

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Actually, those who feel most aggrieved have the most to lose from a Brexit....the negative economic impact of leaving the EU will almost certainly fall much more heavily on the poorer and the elderly.

Lincoln Imp · Jun 21, 2016

lawros left foot said:
Wow, this really smacks of desperation.
Wheeling out five WW 2 veterans to try and influence, who exactly?
All the old boys would be in their late 80s to 90s, possibly with the mental deterioration that goes with it,and just because they fought in a war that finished 70 years ago, we are meant to be influenced to vote leave? I served in two war zones, I have all my mental faculties and I say vote remain, but I wouldn't expect anyone to vote that way on my say so.

You can just imagine the Brexit planning meeting... "OK Giles, sort out a meeting with some World War Two types will you? We haven't done a Land of Hope and Glory patriotism turn for weeks now. We'll send Priti along. Show how inclusive we are." Meanwhile, what the survivors among many Polish airmen who fought alongside us must be thinking about the pitch for power by the fat philander with an obsessive hair-tinting habit isn't made clear. Good job he wasn't around in 1939. They'd probably still be in Warsaw filling in their entry visas.

Jim in the West · Jun 21, 2016

Two Professors said:
Sounds like you've been taking stupid pills!When you control immigration,you allow in those you need,not everyone and his brother-duh!

But we already allow in those we need. There's pretty much no point in EU migrants coming here if they don't have a job, or aren't studying. The main reason net migration is relatively high is that the UK economy is thriving and creating loads of jobs, which we can't otherwise fill.

Notters · Jun 21, 2016

Two Professors said:
So where do the Spanish kids working in bars etc go for their medical and dental care?The specially EU funded health centre built onto the Royal Sussex,with extra EU funded staff?Don't talk so daft.The reason most of those Spanish kids are here is because of the 50% youth unemployment in their country caused by their membership of the EU and the Euro.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c49043a8-6447-11e4-b219-00144feabdc0.html#axzz4CCjcTK7L

Who do you think needs healthcare more, the Spanish kids in England or the English pensioners in Spain?

5ways · Jun 21, 2016

Two Professors said:
So where do the Spanish kids working in bars etc go for their medical and dental care?The specially EU funded health centre built onto the Royal Sussex,with extra EU funded staff?Don't talk so daft.The reason most of those Spanish kids are here is because of the 50% youth unemployment in their country caused by their membership of the EU and the Euro.

I'm not being daft. Vote whichever way you want but do remember: EU migrants subsidise your services and help pay down the UK deficit. Without their contribution there is a large fiscal gap - which leads to Osborne's Brexit budget.

Two Professors · Jun 21, 2016

Jim in the West said:
But we already allow in those we need. There's pretty much no point in EU migrants coming here if they don't have a job, or aren't studying. The main reason net migration is relatively high is that the UK economy is thriving and creating loads of jobs, which we can't otherwise fill.

I think we have more than enough cash-in-hand builders,accordionists,car-valetters,people smugglers etc. without allowing any more in!

heathgate · Jun 21, 2016

On 16th September 1992, the British government was humiliated as the markets forced it out of the ERM, a forerunner to the Euro.

It was dubbed "Black Wednesday" but what followed was an unprecedented period of economic growth for the UK. The main authors of the absurd ERM policy?

John Major and Michael Heseltine!

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Two Professors · Jun 21, 2016

5ways said:
I'm not being daft. Vote whichever way you want but do remember: EU migrants subsidise your services and help pay down the UK deficit. Without their contribution there is a large fiscal gap - which leads to Osborne's Brexit budget.

Don't you think they would do better to work in their own country-I'm sure the bar owners would find no shortage of staff if they paid the going rate,instead of slave wages!

heathgate · Jun 21, 2016

Jim in the West said:
Actually, those who feel most aggrieved have the most to lose from a Brexit....the negative economic impact of leaving the EU will almost certainly fall much more heavily on the poorer and the elderly.

Explain why?

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Wrong-Direction · Jun 21, 2016

Soulman said:
Do you need to convince yourself to stay?. As you alluded to in a previous post that some of us remember and appreciated and benefited pre EU. You are of the younger generation who knows no different and seem happy to give up our democracy.

Democracy ?[emoji23] Christ you guys are hilarious

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Scunner · Jun 21, 2016

drew said:
Out of 736 MEPs, I believe we have 73 which is proportional. We have the power of veto. However, is the 'anywhere' you refer to the House of Commons where we have a government that was voted in by only 24% of the electorate. Or is it the House of Lords, which I agree with many in that it should be reformed and maybe even become a second elected chamber. However that sounds great but, as per America, could see Government legislation stifled.

As for property, why don't we just build more homes and ensure that all the empty properties around the country are brought back into circulation.

It's not proportionate at all...

Firstly, in response to your previous assertion that the EU does not pass laws that the member states have not agreed to - a somewhat innocent view of the machinations of the EU - here is an example of just how undemocratic the EP is: http://www.cityam.com/235972/uk-ports-under-threat-from-eu-rules-overhaul-centre-for-policy-studies All 73 UK MEPs, from every persuasion, voted against this legislation as it is particularly bad for the UK. We are distinct from most of Europe as an island nation, with small ports that rely on the system we have to survive. Just how democratic is it that land-locked countries like Austria, Hungary and Luxembourg and countries with limited coastline like Romania, Sweden and Germany - thus reliant on major ports - were able to vote in legislation like this, as they subsequently did, against our unanimous wishes?

In terms of proportionality, your comment is wrong, completely. We have 73 MEPs which 1 MEP per 880,000 Brits: Bulgaria (pop 7 million) elects 17 MEPs = 1 per 411,000; Austria (population 8.5 million) elects 18 MEPs = 1 per 472,000; Portugal (population 10 million) elects 21 MEPs = 1 per 476,000; Belgium (population 11 million) elects 21 MEPs = 1 per 523,000; Sweden 20 MEPs = 1 per 500,000. Even Germany, with 96 MEPs has better than us with 1 MEP per 843,000 population.

If you then consider that QMV now appiles to 80% of EU legislation, and only a 55% majority is required, our ability to affect the will of the EP is reduced even further. Anyone that thinks that we can stay and reform is delusional. There is absolutely no way the smaller nations that benefit tremendously from EU handouts and corruptly gain EU cash on a routine basis (the EU fraud office itself identified £685million of corruptly gained EU cash in 2014) will allow a larger nation like us to push through reforms that remove the ability to manipulate the EP in the way that they do.

The end result is what we have, larger Med countries like Italy, Greece and Spain suffering in the Eurozone, larger northern nations like Germany unable to translate more flexible economies into growth and positive trade deals and 28 countries bickering over so much detail that deals like the Canadian one have taken 7 years.

Vote leave.

Two Professors · Jun 21, 2016

Notters said:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c49043a8-6447-11e4-b219-00144feabdc0.html#axzz4CCjcTK7L

Who do you think needs healthcare more, the Spanish kids in England or the English pensioners in Spain?

Possibly,but there is a whole healthcare and medical insurance industry built around those pensioners,providing much needed Spanish jobs.We have no extra provision in this country,which is why ordinary people have an extended wait to see a GP.

beorhthelm · Jun 21, 2016

Jim in the West said:
Actually, those who feel most aggrieved have the most to lose from a Brexit....the negative economic impact of leaving the EU will almost certainly fall much more heavily on the poorer and the elderly.

unless you are saying Brexit will lead to reduction in pensions, welfare and tax credits, pensioners, poor and low paid will be insulated from leaving.

Wrong-Direction · Jun 21, 2016

Roll on Glastonbury tomorrow, a few days to just leave the bullshit of the real world behind and have a good time with your mates! I'm sure this thread will be down in meltdown

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Steve in Japan · Jun 21, 2016

5ways said:
I'm not being daft. Vote whichever way you want but do remember: EU migrants subsidise your services and help pay down the UK deficit. Without their contribution there is a large fiscal gap - which leads to Osborne's Brexit budget.

I have no idea what percentage of EU migrants are lower earners but suspect it is most of those in the agricultural sector, catering and retail. To pretend that some bloke on minimum wages or more likely zero hours contract is paying down the national debt is ludicrous. They'll be paying little or no tax and NI.

Two Professors · Jun 21, 2016

Lincoln Imp said:
You can just imagine the Brexit planning meeting... "OK Giles, sort out a meeting with some World War Two types will you? We haven't done a Land of Hope and Glory patriotism turn for weeks now. We'll send Priti along. Show how inclusive we are." Meanwhile, what the survivors among many Polish airmen who fought alongside us must be thinking about the pitch for power by the fat philander with an obsessive hair-tinting habit isn't made clear. Good job he wasn't around in 1939. They'd probably still be in Warsaw filling in their entry visas.

Have you ever visited a Polish ex-servicemens club?Are you of Polish descent?Whats a philander?How dare you criticise other people's patriotism,when you obviously have none of your own?

Two Professors · Jun 21, 2016

Wrong-Direction said:
Roll on Glastonbury tomorrow, a few days to just leave the bullshit of the real world behind and have a good time with your mates! I'm sure this thread will be down in meltdown

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