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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

  • Total voters
    1,081


O

One Love

Well-known member
Aug 22, 2011
4,362
Brighton
JC Footy Genius said:
Wrong person, the ones claiming absolute certainty/they always know best are all on your side of the fence.
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Well you would know better.

JC Footy Genius said:
Putting aside your assumption one spokesman speaks for the entirity of Uk business I wonder how hard he lobbied the UK government and the EU to try and stop TTIP ... :dunce::lolol::facepalm:
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You can put it aside as much as you like because it doesn't exist. You've just made an assumption that I've made an assumption. :dunce::lolol::facepalm:

So going back to my original point about you knowing more about business than him, what experience have you had in business? Have you ever owned one?
 




pastafarian

pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
ManOfSussex said:
Normal people don't wear red trousers like you do. I'm just pointing out that the Norwegians, Swiss, Turks and Port of Dover could stop what they're doing currently and just do what someone in an article on a pro-Brexit website says. I'm surprised they haven't already to be honest. Is Brexit Central as much fun for you as Country Squire magazine incidentally?
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Isnt it about time you stopped reading the Beano to get your opinions

md16782437210.jpg
 


Two Professors

Two Professors

Two Mad Professors
Jul 13, 2009
7,617
Multicultural Brum
One Love said:
Well you would know better.



You can put it aside as much as you like because it doesn't exist. You've just made an assumption that I've made an assumption. :dunce::lolol::facepalm:

So going back to my original point about you knowing more about business than him, what experience have you had in business? Have you ever owned one?
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Are you sure this business spokesman exists?After all,the one who says he had a conversation over dinner with works for the Telegraph.:lolol:

Waiter-'Would you like the soup sir?' Businessman-'None of my members want a deal with the USA' Waiter-'Sorry sir,would you like a doctor?':rotlf:
 


JC Footy Genius

JC Footy Genius

Bringer of TRUTH
Jun 9, 2015
10,568
One Love said:
Well you would know better.
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In this particular case yes you are right, I would.

One Love said:
You can put it aside as much as you like because it doesn't exist. You've just made an assumption that I've made an assumption. :dunce::lolol::facepalm:
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Actually I misrepresented your argument :dunce::lolol::facepalm:

One Love said:
So going back to my original point about you knowing more about business than him, what experience have you had in business? Have you ever owned one?
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Who said I know more about business than him? How much experience and what size of business is needed to qualify to hold an opinion? As you're a fan of playing 'appeal to authority' top trumps does he know more than the collective view of the UK government and the EU who all seem to think striking a trade deal is beneficial?
 


Baldseagull

Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
10,947
Crawley
pastafarian said:
July 2, 2018
Busting the Remain-inspired myths about trade on WTO terms


Written by
Professor David Collins

Among the most vividly distressing of the post-Brexit images we have been exposed to by the Remain-dominated media is that of the mile-long queue of lorries at Dover, effectively shut out from the EU’s market because of its incompatible regulations and time-consuming inspections.

That British products will somehow be subjected to a battery of new rules and tests on Brexit Day, delaying or even prohibiting their entry into the EU, ignores the rights the UK is entitled to as a member of the World Trade Organisation (WTO), which it will re-join as an independent member following its departure from the EU next year.

The EU is also a member of the WTO, as are most countries in the world, meaning that it is bound by the WTO’s rules. Several of these render the infamous lorry-queue scenario highly implausible.

First, the WTO’s Agreement on Sanitary and Phytosanitary Measures (SPS), dealing with food-related products, provides that WTO Members must ensure that regulations and inspection procedures must be applied only to the extent necessary to protect health and cannot be maintained without sufficient scientific evidence. If there is no risk from British foods today while we are still in the EU, then there is no risk the day after we leave, as long as the products themselves do not change
.
Furthermore, WTO Members must ensure that their food regulations do not arbitrarily or unjustifiably discriminate between Members where identical or similar conditions prevail, including between their own territory and that of other Members. Since the UK does not intend to implement a wholesale change to its regulatory standards immediately after Brexit, the EU cannot treat products from the UK differently than they did before Brexit.

Second, with regards to safety standards for all other types of goods – like furniture or kettles – the WTO’s Technical Barriers to Trade (TBT) Agreement likewise states that technical regulations shall not be more trade-restrictive than necessary to fulfil a legitimate objective, such as consumer safety, taking account of the risks non-fulfilment would create. Moreover, conformity assessment procedures should not be prepared, adopted or applied with a view to or with the effect of creating unnecessary obstacles to international trade.

This means that product safety testing procedures cannot be more burdensome or be applied more strictly than is necessary to give the importing Member adequate confidence that products conform with the applicable technical regulations or standards. This means that the EU cannot impose regulatory barriers on UK goods without justification after Brexit as long as product and safety standards between the two jurisdictions remain aligned.

If the UK seeks to modify its own regulatory procedures regarding health and safety of products going forward – perhaps with a view to eliminating some of the laws that have made the EU uncompetitive – the EU may at that point be entitled to request additional testing or inspection at the border. However, the TBT Agreement provides that under such circumstances, WTO Members shall give positive consideration to accepting as equivalent technical regulations of other Members, even if these regulations differ from their own, provided they are satisfied that these regulations adequately fulfil the objectives of their own regulations.

In other words, a potential new UK regulatory scheme would effectively need to ignore consumer safety in order for any additional testing procedures at the EU border to be allowed under WTO law. It is unlikely that this will occur in the near future, if ever. Even if it were to happen, such conformity assessment procedures would still need to be no more burdensome than necessary.

Lastly, on the formalities of customs procedures at the border, the WTO’s General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT) recognises the need for minimising the incidence and complexity of import and export formalities (for both tariff and non-tariff barriers) and for decreasing and simplifying import and export documentation requirements.

This is further enshrined in the new Trade Facilitation Agreement, which obliges WTO members to minimise customs formalities through technology, including many of the features discussed in relation to the maximum facilitation strategy for the Northern Ireland frontier. The new UK-EU border must adhere to this high standard of frictionless transit precisely for the purpose of avoiding long delays caused by needless red tape of the kind we have been told to fear.

Contrary to what many doomsayers may wish the public to believe, UK goods will not suddenly become hazardous to the health and safety of EU consumers the day after Brexit. There is no way that the EU could get away with placing additional arbitrary restrictions on goods imported from the UK after Brexit, either with respect to the content of the regulations, the testing procedures or customs formalities. New UK-EU non-tariff barriers would be illegal under WTO rules immediately after exit, even in a no-deal scenario.

More here…………
https://brexitcentral.com/busting-remain-inspired-myths-trade-wto-terms/

David Collins is a Professor of International Economic Law at City, University of London
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A lot of "no more difficult than necessary" in that, I agree this is how the EU will behave, but I think he underestimates what is necessary though, and the ability of the French to make it a little more difficult from time to time, as the Spanish do at Gibraltar when they get irked.
 




Baldseagull

Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
10,947
Crawley












O

One Love

Well-known member
Aug 22, 2011
4,362
Brighton
JC Footy Genius said:
In this particular case yes you are right, I would.
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In this particular case? Can you give me an example of when you haven't and you've admitted that you're wrong?


JC Footy Genius said:
Who said I know more about business than him? How much experience and what size of business is needed to qualify to hold an opinion? As you're a fan of playing 'appeal to authority' top trumps does he know more than the collective view of the UK government and the EU who all seem to think striking a trade deal is beneficial?
Click to expand...

Ignoring the deflection and plentiful emoji use, it's a no then. You know nothing about the subject matter. Whereas a leader in his field maybe, just maybe, would.

There could be real concerns raised by this and I am interested. I would like to hear from anyone knowledgeable in the field. Instead you just shut down any sort of discussion about important matters in a know-it-all, sneering manner, on a subject you know nothing about.

You've been doing this all the way through this thread. Can you give it a rest? I'm sure we all, well maybe most, want the best result possible for the country from Brexit now.
 






Baldseagull

Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
10,947
Crawley
JC Footy Genius said:
Alternative facts .. from the electoral commission?

If it's upheld and deemed a breach of the rules I look forward to both sides being judged on the same criteria.

https://order-order.com/2018/07/04/remain-campaign-used-spending-tactics-vote-leave-far-worse/
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Guido misses a major part of the point, in fact the whole bloody point, no one has said these groups worked in collusion with others or each other. The DUP, BeLeave, Vote Leave and Veterans for Britain seem to have ploughed all their cash into the same obscure Canadian research group, AggregateIQ, Vote Leave even made the physical payment to them that was, on paper, BeLeaves payment.
 


Baldseagull

Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
10,947
Crawley
One Love said:
In this particular case? Can you give me an example of when you haven't and you've admitted that you're wrong?




Ignoring the deflection and plentiful emoji use, it's a no then. You know nothing about the subject matter. Whereas a leader in his field maybe, just maybe, would.

There could be real concerns raised by this and I am interested. I would like to hear from anyone knowledgeable in the field. Instead you just shut down any sort of discussion about important matters in a know-it-all, sneering manner, on a subject you know nothing about.

You've been doing this all the way through this thread. Can you give it a rest? I'm sure we all, well maybe most, want the best result possible for the country from Brexit now.
Click to expand...

He will tell you how democratic it all is, as he can't argue for Brexit on it's merits, as it has none.
 






WATFORD zero

WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
25,809
To be fair to the Brexiteers on here, no wonder they're excited. They COULD be 24 hrs away from finding out what they voted for 2 and a bit years ago.

If I ever got myself into that position, I would be as excited as a tramp all over a cone of f***ing chips :thumbsup:

In fact, if I was stupid enough to get myself into that position, there's a fair chance i probably would be a tramp all over a cone of f***ing chips :lolol:
 
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G

Garry Nelson's teacher

Well-known member
May 11, 2015
5,257
Bloody Worthing!
Right this is how I see it going today.

The 7 Cabinet Brexiteers won't storm out. They will reluctantly and under protest go along with May's version of Brexit. They might leverage one or two tweaks today but fundamentally they'll stay put. Why?


a) they are ambitious (and most of them rather nasty - but that's a side-bar) - it's quite a thing to give up a Cabinet job when you are a venal and nasty piece of work
b) they might not all agree within the group - they are 'rebels' and might have differing variants of a hard Brexit; they are nasty (now a given) and would consider each of the other 6 a rival for the PM's job not to be trusted; they are not the collective type

c) they will bank upon the negotiations with the EU breaking down at some point - ie May's proposals will be unworkable

d) at that point they will make their move - they'd be on the moral high ground having gone along with a soft Brexit to maintain party unity, do the decent thing etc and then can play the 'the EU is unreasonable' card


In effect they be kicking the matter of resignation/throwing toys out of prams down the road. Now is not the time for the grand gesture - the party might never forgive them; their bluff might be called; a General Election with Corbyn waiting in the wings is not a pleasant prospect for them


Anyway - that's what I'd do if I were them. (If anyone goes now it will be Davis, I reckon.)

By close of play today we'll see...……..


Any other predictions??
 
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K

Kinky Gerbil

Im The Scatman
NSC Patron
Jul 16, 2003
57,887
hassocks
Garry Nelson's teacher said:
Right this is how I see it going today.

The 7 Cabinet Brexiteers won't storm out. They will reluctantly and under protest go along with May's version of Brexit. They might leverage one or two tweaks today but fundamentally they'll stay put. Why?


a) they are ambitious (and most of them rather nasty - but that's a side-bar) - it's quite a thing to give up a Cabinet job when you are a venal piece of work

b) they might not all agree within the group - they are 'rebels' and might have differing variants of a hard Brexit; they are nasty (now a given) and would consider each of the other 6 a rival for the PM's job - to which it goes without saying most of them aspire - not to be trusted; they are not 'collective' types; and arguably their ambition will trump whatever principles they have anywa

c) they will bank on the negotiations with the EU breaking down at some point downstream - ie May's proposals will be unworkable (of this they will be quite confident)

d) it's at that point they will make their move - they'd be on the moral high ground having gone along with a soft Brexit to maintain party unity, do the decent thing etc and then can play the 'the EU is unreasonable' card; they'd have been let down by May and their view of the EU will be a self-fulfilling prophesy

In effect they be kicking the matter of resignation/throwing toys out of prams down the road. Now is not the time for the grand gesture - the party might never forgive them; their bluff might be called; a General Election with Corbyn waiting in the wings is not a pleasant prospect for them


Anyway - that's what I'd do if I were them. (If anyone goes now it will be Davis, I reckon.)

By close of play today we'll see...……..


Any other predictions??
Click to expand...

One of Boris, Gove or Davis will stab May in the back in the next couple of days in their newspaper column
 




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