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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?


  • Total voters
    1,081


pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
to get back on track and away from lies from certain restaurant chains.

something serious to get stuck into

Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier: Hardliner or deal maker?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38526355

Just over half a century ago Britain's place as an estranged member of the European family was cemented by a Frenchman when President Charles De Gaulle vetoed the UK's attempts to join the EEC.
Britain eventually joined the club. Now, as it leaves the EU, a political descendant of the wartime Free French leader will play the decisive role in deciding the nature of the UK's future relationship with the EU.
Michel Barnier, the former French foreign minister who is the EU's chief negotiator on Brexit, has spent the last few months on a Grand Tour of Europe to agree a common front once the formal talks start in the spring.
So just who is Michel Barnier? Is he a European federalist out to punish Britain or is he more of a deal maker who will work hard to avoid a so-called train crash Brexit in which the UK falls out of the EU in a disorderly fashion?
'Ski instructor'
The Barnier story begins in his backyard in the French Alps where he organised the 1992 Winter Olympic Games - one of his proudest achievements.
To the Paris elite the Olympics marked Barnier out as something of provincial figure who is guilty of a grave offence for a senior French public official; he failed to attend the elite Ecole nationale d'administration.
Baroness Bowles, the former Liberal Democrat MEP who knows Barnier from her time as chair of the European Parliament's Economic and Monetary Affairs committee, says he was known as the "ski instructor".

Lord Patten of Barnes, the former Tory chairman, who knew Barnier from his time as France's junior European commissioner, did not see him as a top flight politician.
"He's not a joke. He's not a second rater - he'd be perfectly plausible, given our national differences, in a British cabinet in a sort of job like minister of transport," he said.
"I'm not being too condescending but I don't think he'd be home secretary or foreign secretary."
As someone who was shunned by the gilded elite of Paris, Barnier potentially has common ground with his UK counterpart, David Davis, whose friends feel he was patronised by former PM David Cameron's circle.
But friends of Barnier suggest they were hardly soulmates when they both served as Europe minister because Davis opposed the EU's social chapter.
As Europe minister, Barnier showed that he hailed from the Gaullist tradition in France which is suspicious of the Anglo-Saxon world view.
But he is no diehard Gaullist and bears no ill will to Britain, according to an old ally.
Pragmatic figure
Michel Dantin, who is now an MEP, told Newsnight: "Michel Barnier is a Gaullist, a social Gaullist. His idea of Europe is a Europe of nations and not a federation.
"I think that in the forthcoming negotiations he will respect the British nation because he is aware of history and his approach is to respect others."
Barnier's Brussels breakthrough came in 2010 when he landed one of the biggest jobs in the European Commission - as internal market commissioner.
This gave him oversight of the City of London, prompting howls of outrage that a Frenchman would undermine a key part of the UK economy.

Lord King of Lothbury, the former governor of the Bank of England, raised his voice in a meeting with Barnier in his office in 2011 after he put forward proposals to regulate banks.
King told Barnier that his ideas on the amount of equity finance banks should issue and the amount of liquidity the banks should hold ran were inconsistent with the proposals of the Basel committee.
Bank sources said that King did not believe Barnier was hostile to the City; he was simply wedded to the idea of pan-European regulation.
Mark Hoban, City minister at the time, saw a more pragmatic figure who underwent a learning curve.
"Certainly I found him, at the beginnings of my dealings with him in the aftermath of the crisis, very keen to talk about the failure of Anglo Saxon capitalism because he knew that played well in continental Europe," he said.
"Two years later, as I was leaving the Treasury, [I found him] more attuned to jobs and growth."
Red lines
Barnier's track record in Brussels made him the natural choice as the chief Brexit negotiator.
Nigel Farage, the former UKIP leader, believes Barnier will be guided entirely by maintaining the sanctity of the European project.
"Crucially he's of the project. He's a true believer in the religion of building a united states of Europe and so he's the man they're going to trust."
Jonathan Faull, who has just retired after 38 years of service in the European Commission where he worked with Barnier, says he will not set out to punish Britain. But he will have red lines.
"Mr Barnier will want to be constructive I have no doubt," said Faull.
"He will want to secure the best possible deal for the 27 states of the EU, a deal which maintains their integrity and their fundamental principles governing their internal market."
In private, Davis believes there are two Michel Barniers. One is the hardliner who vented frustration over Britain's approach at an informal meeting last year.
But the Brexit secretary is expecting to meet a flexible deal maker once the formal negotiations are under way this spring.
Dantin, one of Barnier's oldest political allies, warns Davis to work hard on building a relationship with him.
"If we want the negotiations to succeed it is necessary to have confidence between the two main negotiators," he said.
"If the negotiations go wrong the EU will not have much to lose but the UK will have much to lose. That is because the UK is effectively the supplicant."
The future of Britain's scratchy relationship with the EU will, in the initial negotiations, rest in the hands of two political outsiders.
Perhaps they will find common ground over their shared love of outdoors sport, though the silver haired and suave Frenchman would probably never be seen dead hiking across mountains in the style of his British counterpart.
Nicholas Watt is political editor for BBC Newsnight
 


pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
I don't want that sort of person to be allowed to come to Sussex from Scotland, or Wales, either, but not as much as I like the freedom for all to move around. It is a question of who you regard as a foreigner, most of the problems and difficulties of the EU can be solved by being more integrated, and that is the way I would prefer to solve them.
The most successful Countries of today are Countries made up of what were once smaller states, now joined together, either as a federation, or as one nation.

Its not about identifying someone as a foreigner,this is where your side fails time after time.
If someone is a criminal and a bad egg, stopping them entering the country is not a foreign thing, its a necessity. Its common sense.

Greece and Italy were once made up of smaller states.....not sure you can say they are successful countries within the EU
 


pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
As an aside chaps currently on a whistle stop tour in Europe.
Bit limited i admit Germany,France,Swiss ....Belgium and Lux to come.

people have been very interested to chat about Brexit once they realise im English, Every single person so far has said what we did gives them hope about being free as well.......

its quite possible of course i just attract the wrong sort :cheers:


Freedom for Europeans.......sounds like a good cause to me.
 


Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
10,869
Crawley
Its not about identifying someone as a foreigner,this is where your side fails time after time.
If someone is a criminal and a bad egg, stopping them entering the country is not a foreign thing, its a necessity. Its common sense.

Greece and Italy were once made up of smaller states.....not sure you can say they are successful countries within the EU

Will this apply to Ireland as well then? What about holidaying Europeans? I am wondering, because I believe they have criminals in Ireland as well, and if they are a criminal from elsewhere in the EU, intent on picking pockets, shoplifting and general skulduggery, might they just as well do it for 6 months then go home again, or having no respect for law and order, just stay beyond the 6 months I expect will be permitted visa free for tourists.
 


OzMike

Well-known member
Oct 2, 2006
12,891
Perth Australia
The vote went against Europe, which I believe was the right thing, as it was being run like a private members club.
Things will get better, England will lead by example, as it has done in the past and show that enough was enough.
Other nations will follow, having trade agreements is one thing but the touch paper was already lit when the single currency was introduced and they tried to change other nations laws.
 




pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
Will this apply to Ireland as well then? What about holidaying Europeans? I am wondering, because I believe they have criminals in Ireland as well, and if they are a criminal from elsewhere in the EU, intent on picking pockets, shoplifting and general skulduggery, might they just as well do it for 6 months then go home again, or having no respect for law and order, just stay beyond the 6 months I expect will be permitted visa free for tourists.

Will what apply to ireland?
Its a relief to finally hear a remainer admit on here that there will actually be visa free travel for tourists.
plenty on here say its impossible........spread the word to your chums please.
 


Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
10,869
Crawley
Will what apply to ireland?
Its a relief to finally hear a remainer admit on here that there will actually be visa free travel for tourists.
plenty on here say its impossible........spread the word to your chums please.

Will Visa controlled entry apply to Irish nationals?

And if Visa free travel is permitted between the UK and the EU member states, for tourists, how do you propose to exclude the rapists and murderers? Do you expect us to have more information on EU citizens and their criminal records once we have left the EU, than we currently do?
 


bWize

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2007
1,676
9ig51z.jpg
:D:D

Funny, although that's a parody "JD Wetherspoons" twitter account :thumbsup:
 






alfredmizen

Banned
Mar 11, 2015
6,342
In fairness to the everything served on a chopping board wally.
Its his CE who has made the claim about Brexit.

No doubt you are right the claim about Brexit is ballocks as he is just protecting his job and giving up excuses as to why said restaurants have failed. Ive walked past two of them a few times Richmond and the one near st pauls and im surprised how empty they are. Turd business plan springs to mind rather than brexit.
i mean seriously......a jamie oliver restaurant in Richmond..........thats the Richmond version of McDonalds FFS
the St. Paul's one is the one near where I work.
 


wellquickwoody

Many More Voting Years
NSC Patreon
Aug 10, 2007
13,584
Melbourne
Exactly, some companies are just jumping on the Brexit bandwagon.....let's make a bigger profit, put up our prices and blame it on Brexit.
I have seen the Next owner interviewed, what a nasty piece of work he is.

The cost of importing product into the business I work in has risen by around 15% since Brexit. This product is only just beginning to filter through into our warehouse stock, guess what will happen to the prices in the very near future?
 












studio150

Well-known member
Jul 30, 2011
29,553
On the Border
The cost of importing product into the business I work in has risen by around 15% since Brexit. This product is only just beginning to filter through into our warehouse stock, guess what will happen to the prices in the very near future?

No no you must realise by now that higher inflation is great news because we have our country back and a low pound is brilliant for exporters.

Stop this negativity leavers have banned it :lolol:
 


Soulman

New member
Oct 22, 2012
10,966
Sompting
No no you must realise by now that higher inflation is great news because we have our country back and a low pound is brilliant for exporters.

Stop this negativity leavers have banned it :lolol:

Just put this post on repeat, oh you have.
FYI, most leavers have stated many times that leaving would not be easy, there would be tough tomes. By the way I did realise the JD tweet was a wind up, the clue was the laughing smiley that I added.
 


vegster

Sanity Clause
May 5, 2008
27,867
:lolol:

Yet another case of a leaver not looking beyond the headline.

It is the way of business to shut down when things are not making money, Brexit and it's inherent financial woes may be the tipping point for many businesses. But the spoof Wetherspoons Twatter is cleverer than it looks," Vote brexit - get 'Spoons " could well be the best we can aspire too, however, you probably didn't look beyond the tagline did you ?:lolol:
 








Lincoln Imp

Well-known member
Feb 2, 2009
5,964
Just put this post on repeat, oh you have.
FYI, most leavers have stated many times that leaving would not be easy, there would be tough tomes. By the way I did realise the JD tweet was a wind up, the clue was the laughing smiley that I added.

...although you have explained to us all that when you insert a laughing smiley it doesn't mean that you are amused so I 'm not sure what you mean anymore.
 



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