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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

  • Total voters
    1,081


Mental Lental

Mental Lental

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
2,273
Shiki-shi, Saitama
Hey look guys! I just found this article that instantly pinged my confirmation bias!

https://www.ft.com/content/5fef7796-1914-11e7-a53d-df09f373be87

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/63mgx7/india_dents_uk_trade_hopes_with_lapsed_deal/

Now it's time for you to read the article (or just slag it off for being from the LEFTY Financial Times) and if you agree perhaps offer up some thoughts.

Alternatively, if the article is seen in your eyes as evidence that goes against your core values/beliefs/crap you said earlier on the internet, you may suffer from a bit of cognitive dissonance. It's ok, all you have to do is a bit of mental-hoop-jumping, find spurious reasons to dismiss the article and carry on with your core beliefs unchanged.

I'll leave it up to you guys.

Edit: Added a reddit link for those who don't want to subscribe to the Financial Times.
 
Last edited:




GT49er

GT49er

Well-known member
Feb 1, 2009
46,738
Gloucester
Mental Lental said:
Hey look guys! I just found this article that instantly pinged my confirmation bias!

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/63mgx7/india_dents_uk_trade_hopes_with_lapsed_deal/

I'll leave it up to you guys.

Edit: Added a reddit link for those who don't want to subscribe to the Financial Times.
Click to expand...

".......is one of a succession of such deals that have been effectively scrapped by the Indian government."

Ongoing Indian government policy. So, not just us and not just Brexit then. But carry on............
 


L

Lincoln Imp

Well-known member
Feb 2, 2009
5,964
JC Footy Genius said:
Extremist Loon

- Someone who participates in a democratic process but doesn't accept the result

- someone who thinks it acceptable to ignore/ thwart the will of the majority before it can be enacted

- someone who hopes the UK will break up

That would be you then :D
Click to expand...

You are a silly sausage, but I don't blame you for not responding to post 29698. Shouty banter is more your thing I suppose.
 


L

Lincoln Imp

Well-known member
Feb 2, 2009
5,964
Lincoln Imp said:
This 'before the will of the people is enacted' clause of yours interests me. How does it work? We don't know for sure how the Brexit talks will go - they could go well, they could (pace Mrs May's 'No deal is better than a bad deal') go badly. Two questions therefore...

1. If they do go badly why do you think that it is acceptable to ask people for their view the day after we cast ourselves loose - but the action of undemocratic extreme loons to ask them the day before, when there would remain at least a theoretical possibility of us not doing so?

2. Do you agree with May that it would be unfair to ask the Scottish people for their views on independence when the shape of the Brexit deal is still unknown?
Click to expand...

Here it is again in case you're busy.
 








ManOfSussex

ManOfSussex

We wunt be druv
Apr 11, 2016
14,748
Rape of Hastings, Sussex
Mental Lental said:
Hey look guys! I just found this article that instantly pinged my confirmation bias!

https://www.ft.com/content/5fef7796-1914-11e7-a53d-df09f373be87

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/63mgx7/india_dents_uk_trade_hopes_with_lapsed_deal/

Now it's time for you to read the article (or just slag it off for being from the LEFTY Financial Times) and if you agree perhaps offer up some thoughts.

Alternatively, if the article is seen in your eyes as evidence that goes against your core values/beliefs/crap you said earlier on the internet, you may suffer from a bit of cognitive dissonance. It's ok, all you have to do is a bit of mental-hoop-jumping, find spurious reasons to dismiss the article and carry on with your core beliefs unchanged.

I'll leave it up to you guys.

Edit: Added a reddit link for those who don't want to subscribe to the Financial Times.
Click to expand...

Having lived in a former British Empire, Commonwealth country, I concur with that article says in that other countries don't view it as being as important as we do now and they certainly don't view it and us through rose tinted glasses.
 


Two Professors

Two Professors

Two Mad Professors
Jul 13, 2009
7,617
Multicultural Brum
Kinky Gerbils said:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/apr/06/ryanair-uk-flights-brexit-deal-wto

Some more on aviation, the key part being:

Like all other airlines, Ryanair schedules aircraft 12 months in advance, which means it would need to know the likely regulatory regime by next March to ensure continuity.

Which shows the short time frame to get stuff sorted.
Click to expand...

I really don't understand why the aviation industry keep on ignoring your views,they must be thick,old,racist,little Englanders.
Stansted are the latest,building a new arrivals terminal at a cost of £130 million.They could have saved themselves the money if they'd listened to you :lolol:
 




K

Kinky Gerbil

Im The Scatman
NSC Patron
Jul 16, 2003
57,899
hassocks
Two Professors said:
I really don't understand why the aviation industry keep on ignoring your views,they must be thick,old,racist,little Englanders.
Stansted are the latest,building a new arrivals terminal at a cost of £130 million.They could have saved themselves the money if they'd listened to you :lolol:
Click to expand...

What are you on about?
 


L

Lincoln Imp

Well-known member
Feb 2, 2009
5,964
JC Footy Genius said:
For clause see democracy. A majority vote for something and their decision will be implemented as promised by the government.

1.) Can you define badly? This second referendum wheeze, dreamt up by the Lib Dems, only after the result didn't go their way, has bog all to do with democracy and everything to do with their desperation after the wipe out at the last GE. This was so transparent even some Lib Dems resigned in disgust. As a certain P Ashdown said on the night of the vote “Any people who retreat into ‘we’re coming back for second one’ – they don’t believe in democracy." Obviously, after we have left the EU, fulfilling the wishes of the majority, arguing and campaigning for another referendum or rejoining is entirely democratic.

2.) The SNP are predictably trying to exploit the situation but a clear majority of Scots don't want a second referendum before we leave according to numerous polls.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, I missed it. But it was a pretty crummy reply.

We all know that the Lib Dems want to stay in the EU. So apparently do millions and millions of other people of all political faiths. It is how that might happen is the issue. If the government parked tanks round the Palace and told the people they were ignoring the vote you could argue that it was undemocratic. If they negotiate in good faith with the EU but fail to achieve a deal that won't (for example) make the people poorer (a thing for which they didn't vote, according to the most senior of ministers) then only a zealot, or someone fearful of losing, would regard it as undemocratic to check back with them.

Your SNP response simply quotes a current opinion poll regarding the timing of a referendum. Are you saying that Scottish people should be allowed to vote in a referendum when all the facts are clear but not before?
 


ManOfSussex

ManOfSussex

We wunt be druv
Apr 11, 2016
14,748
Rape of Hastings, Sussex
JC Footy Genius said:
Glad you asked I'm here to help. From the very little information available it would seem the fears are based on Remain voters in these constituencies deciding to punish the Tories for delivering Brexit. Which seems a bit odd as a majority in the South West voted leave.

Delivering on Brexit seems to be a sensible political move overall though as the Tories consistently poll 40-45% which would give them a big majority/landslide.

Your'e understandably obsessed/besotted with the delightful Andrea but I have the feeling she would eat you alive so probably best stick to those eastern european babes .. :drool:
Click to expand...

Well in terms of Eastern European babes, I was very pessimistic, but I should have listened to Andrea Leadsom and remembered that pessimists have been banished and Theresa May now seems to be suggesting free movement will be around for a while longer than some hoped, so I'll be okay on that score.

In terms of the extremist loons of The Liberal Democrats, one of their strengths has always been constituency MP's and pockets of extremist loon supporters in certain constituencies. As that article suggests, their national standing in opinion polls isn't the whole story, they only need to win a few seats of our quite wonderful, caring, sharing, red, white and blue, Brexit supporting Conservative and Unionist Party Government for them not to have a majority at Westminster. Maybe throw in a few other losses, David Mundell to The SNP in Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale for example, and I can see a problem in 2020.

It's perfectly plausible for our crack, negotiating team out in Brussels to give some concessions to the evil empire that is The EU that some people don't like, a hung parliament in 2020 and political impasse and delays on the red, white and blue Brexit that the overwhelming democratic majority want and expect, and we're then unavoidably heading toward that dangerous territory and this, as yet undefined, wrath and uprising that will occur if Brexit turns into a betrayal of the people of The fully and always United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Incidentally, I just checked the Rother District council website and the candidates have all been finalised for the council elections next month and there's extremist loons on the ballot paper. In my neck of the woods, Battle is a veritable hotbed of extremist lunacy. There'll be Lib Dems signs up everywhere. The local elections will be very interesting in 4 weeks time - May the 4th be with you.
 




Two Professors

Two Professors

Two Mad Professors
Jul 13, 2009
7,617
Multicultural Brum


Two Professors

Two Professors

Two Mad Professors
Jul 13, 2009
7,617
Multicultural Brum
ManOfSussex said:
Well in terms of Eastern European babes, I was very pessimistic, but I should have listened to Andrea Leadsom and remembered that pessimists have been banished and Theresa May now seems to be suggesting free movement will be around for a while longer than some hoped, so I'll be okay on that score.

In terms of the extremist loons of The Liberal Democrats, one of their strengths has always been constituency MP's and pockets of extremist loon supporters in certain constituencies. As that article suggests, their national standing in opinion polls isn't the whole story, they only need to win a few seats of our quite wonderful, caring, sharing, red, white and blue, Brexit supporting Conservative and Unionist Party Government for them not to have a majority at Westminster. Maybe throw in a few other losses, David Mundell to The SNP in Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale for example, and I can see a problem in 2020.

It's perfectly plausible for our crack, negotiating team out in Brussels to give some concessions to the evil empire that is The EU that some people don't like, a hung parliament in 2020 and political impasse and delays on the red, white and blue Brexit that the overwhelming democratic majority want and expect, and we're then unavoidably heading toward that dangerous territory and this, as yet undefined, wrath and uprising that will occur if Brexit turns into a betrayal of the people of The fully and always United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Incidentally, I just checked the Rother District council website and the candidates have all been finalised for the council elections next month and there's extremist loons on the ballot paper. In my neck of the woods, Battle is a veritable hotbed of extremist lunacy. There'll be Lib Dems signs up everywhere. The local elections will be very interesting in 4 weeks time - May the 4th be with you.
Click to expand...

As a Liberal-Democrat voter of long standing,if you think the party is going anywhere nationally with the dim-wit leading at the moment,I would like some of what you're smoking!
 


ManOfSussex

ManOfSussex

We wunt be druv
Apr 11, 2016
14,748
Rape of Hastings, Sussex
Two Professors said:
As a Liberal-Democrat voter of long standing,if you think the party is going anywhere nationally with the dim-wit leading at the moment,I would like some of what you're smoking!
Click to expand...

I refer you to this article - http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...owed-party-would-lose-seats-liberal-democrats

In the past 12 months they've also made the most gains in council seat by-elections. They don't have to win many seats back from The Tories they lost in 2015 at the next general election for a hung parliament.
 








Two Professors

Two Professors

Two Mad Professors
Jul 13, 2009
7,617
Multicultural Brum


Two Professors

Two Professors

Two Mad Professors
Jul 13, 2009
7,617
Multicultural Brum
ManOfSussex said:
I refer you to this article - http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...owed-party-would-lose-seats-liberal-democrats

In the past 12 months they've also made the most gains in council seat by-elections. They don't have to win many seats back from The Tories they lost in 2015 at the next general election for a hung parliament.
Click to expand...

Lib-Dems are very good at local level,but at national level Falloon and Clogg are bloody useless.Get rid of them and they might regain some credibility.Labour council seats are easy pickings at the moment,even Lord Sutch might have won.
 




JC Footy Genius

JC Footy Genius

Bringer of TRUTH
Jun 9, 2015
10,568
Lincoln Imp said:
Fair enough, I missed it. But it was a pretty crummy reply.

We all know that the Lib Dems want to stay in the EU. So apparently do millions and millions of other people of all political faiths. It is how that might happen is the issue. If the government parked tanks round the Palace and told the people they were ignoring the vote you could argue that it was undemocratic. If they negotiate in good faith with the EU but fail to achieve a deal that won't (for example) make the people poorer (a thing for which they didn't vote, according to the most senior of ministers) then only a zealot, or someone fearful of losing, would regard it as undemocratic to check back with them.

Your SNP response simply quotes a current opinion poll regarding the timing of a referendum. Are you saying that Scottish people should be allowed to vote in a referendum when all the facts are clear but not before?
Click to expand...

No need to apologise it's easy to miss notification messages.

Thought it was rather good. It showed how even some Lib Dems thought their stance was undemocratic/extreme.

Ignoring the will of the majority and doing all they can to block/ thwart their decision before it can be enacted is democratic then. :lolol:

As you know calling for a new referendum has bog all to do with 'checking back' with the electorate (it won't happen) and everything to do with ressurrecting the Lib Dems fortunes and hoping to throw a spanner in the exit process. Similarily the SNP are just trying to exploit Brexit to have another go at independence. In both cases there is little public appetite (according to numerous polls) for another vote ... cynical political manoeuvering.

As your lot are so keen on asking endless hypothetical questions and demanding answers perhaps you would like to answer some. How would you assess if people were going to be poorer in a post Brexit world ... OECD, IMF, HM Treasury? Why would' losing' make leavers fearful as we would still leave .... wouldn't we? How would a second referndum on the terms before we left influence the negotiations? If you lost again would you want a third one?
 


JC Footy Genius

JC Footy Genius

Bringer of TRUTH
Jun 9, 2015
10,568
ManOfSussex said:
Well in terms of Eastern European babes, I was very pessimistic, but I should have listened to Andrea Leadsom and remembered that pessimists have been banished and Theresa May now seems to be suggesting free movement will be around for a while longer than some hoped, so I'll be okay on that score.

In terms of the extremist loons of The Liberal Democrats, one of their strengths has always been constituency MP's and pockets of extremist loon supporters in certain constituencies. As that article suggests, their national standing in opinion polls isn't the whole story, they only need to win a few seats of our quite wonderful, caring, sharing, red, white and blue, Brexit supporting Conservative and Unionist Party Government for them not to have a majority at Westminster. Maybe throw in a few other losses, David Mundell to The SNP in Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale for example, and I can see a problem in 2020.

It's perfectly plausible for our crack, negotiating team out in Brussels to give some concessions to the evil empire that is The EU that some people don't like, a hung parliament in 2020 and political impasse and delays on the red, white and blue Brexit that the overwhelming democratic majority want and expect, and we're then unavoidably heading toward that dangerous territory and this, as yet undefined, wrath and uprising that will occur if Brexit turns into a betrayal of the people of The fully and always United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Incidentally, I just checked the Rother District council website and the candidates have all been finalised for the council elections next month and there's extremist loons on the ballot paper. In my neck of the woods, Battle is a veritable hotbed of extremist lunacy. There'll be Lib Dems signs up everywhere. The local elections will be very interesting in 4 weeks time - May the 4th be with you.
Click to expand...

Looking like you will have a few more years of fun then.

Yes the Lib Dems had a reputation for good local MP's and ground campaigns although this didn't seem to help much at the last GE. It's their decision to ignore the referendum result I view as extreme.

The political tides ebb and flow I expect they will recover some ground from the calamatous losses but what about all the Labour/Tory marginals? Winning Copeland suggests numerous Tory gains which would still provide a healthy majority. But yes It is entirely plausible the final deal might fall well short of many peoples expectations but it's hard to see how this would benefit Labour. Assuming the Tories would be stupid enough to deliver that scenario an angry electorate might adopt a plague on all your houses mentality, turn to UKIP which would cause as many problems for Labour as for the Tories. Plus any Lib Dem in a Leave majority constituency.

Beware of the Dark side.
 


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