[Politics] Brexit

Berty23 said:

I don't get why so many leavers assume all remainers are lovers of Corbyn. I would bet good money that he voted to leave. And we know that the vast majority of Tory MPs voted to stay. This is not left vs right, it is centrist vs the more extreme ends right and left. It is genuinely scary how the EU is blamed for things nothing to do with them as this just gives rise to scary nationalism. People are so unwilling to admit that they are wrong that we will go down this route until we are truly screwed and anyone who thinks that poorer people won't be hurt most has no idea. Scary times ahead.

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JC Footy Genius said:

So many Leavers don't assume all are but they know some are. As you point out JC has spent a life time opposing the EC but some Corbyn fan boy Remainers on this thread don't seem to have noticed. Even more bizzarely they complain about government dissarray/incompetence, economic turmoil/uncertainity, while hoping for a Corbyn led government ... I know bonkers right!

Extremism also includes ignoring the democratic will of the majority.

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JC Footy Genius said:

So many Leavers don't assume all are but they know some are. As you point out JC has spent a life time opposing the EC but some Corbyn fan boy Remainers on this thread don't seem to have noticed. Even more bizzarely they complain about government dissarray/incompetence, economic turmoil/uncertainity, while hoping for a Corbyn led government ... I know bonkers right!

Extremism also includes ignoring the democratic will of the majority.

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Berty23 said:

Anyone who says that opposing the referendum is opposed to democracy does not understand democracy. Or does an advisory referendum replace centuries of parliamentary democracy?

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JC Footy Genius said:

Ah the Economist an Impeccable source for relaible forecasts .. almost as good as the FT.

They expected a contraction of 1% in 2017 (compared with 1.8% growth previously) as a slump in domestic demand pulls the economy into recession. UK GDP is on course to grow 1.9% in 2017. No contraction. No recession.

They forecast the number of those in work to fall by hundreds of thousands. More people are in work than ever…

They gloomily forecast a rapid deterioration in the fiscal position, falling tax revenues, increasing unemployment. None of which happened…

They predicted the US Federal Reserve would have to hold interest rates. The Fed raised rates.

The EIU predicted anxiety-driven declines in world stock markets, “When an event promises to strip 6% of GDP from the fifth-biggest economy in the world, it is harder for the rest of the global economy to grow as quickly.” Brexit “will ensure that the global economy continues to underperform its potential for at least another two years”. World stock markets have rallied strongly post-Brexit.

https://order-order.com/2017/06/23/the-economist-lack-of-intelligence-unit/

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5ways said:

What are these predictions based on? It doesn't say in the article, following the vote, following actual Brexit? What?

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JC Footy Genius said:

I disagree it was advisory in name only. The government spent millions sending round a pro remain leaflet which specifically promised to enact the will of the majority. Further parliamentary votes confirmed we would be leaving.

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Berty23 said:

Ah right. So that bit of written propaganda was true? I could really do with a list of what was and wasn't.

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studio150 said:

Excellent news for leavers from this Economist comment

Softest Brexit will only reduce trade by 20% over 10% and the hardest Brexit would be 40% and cut annual income per person by 2.6%.

Happy times and a real bargain in getting our country back


http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21725314-long-government-stays-denial-about-brexits-drawbacks-country-course

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nicko31 said:

Yes the disenfranchised lashed out, the EU was just a convienient scapegoat to get themselves heard and there is a danger of a spectacular own goal. Then there's old people, now that's different conversation

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JC Footy Genius said:

OK. A promise made by the democratically elected government gave the people a voice in advising the government on our future relationship with Europe. Parliament voted to let the people have a binary choice .. in or out of the EU.The democratically elected government then promised any decision would be binding. A majority of the people then voted leave ... the biggest democartic vote for any decision in UK history. After the referenrdum the UK parliament by a big majority endorsed this view. Why can't you accept this?

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The Rivet said:

You really are an obnoxious person. Do you have Parents of age or Grandparents? The 'disenfranchised' by definition would invariably mean the unrepresented or at street level, 'lost out'. That also by definition encompasses many poor people. Should those people be without a voice? As for the EU being a convenient scapegoat? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

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The Rivet said:

You really are an obnoxious person. Do you have Parents of age or Grandparents? The 'disenfranchised' by definition would invariably mean the unrepresented or at street level, 'lost out'. That also by definition encompasses many poor people. Should those people be without a voice? As for the EU being a convenient scapegoat? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

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Berty23 said:

My dad's mrs voted leave because she is racist. It is that simple. She said "at the school near me the majority of kids speak Urdu and that can't be right so I am voting to leave" I asked what part of the eu the Urdu speakers were from and she said "who cares they are all the same"

Anyone who thinks that it an isolated example of racism in the 70+ generation has nothing to do with the 70+ generation.

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Berty23 said:

Because of lies lies and more lies. People had no idea how complicated this would be. Decisions were made for irrational and wrong reasons (for many not all). MPs are elected to represent their constituents and any MP from a remain area who ignored the views of their constituents broke hundreds of years of parliamentary democracy. That is LITERALLY their job. Not to go with the majority nationally but their constituents. Otherwise any MP voting against the government is against democracy.

A stunt by Cameron that he only put into a manifesto not thinking he would win a majority could ruin this country socially and economically for generations. I will go and get a union flag tatoo and all will be fine. Smashing.

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Berty23 said:

Because of lies lies and more lies. People had no idea how complicated this would be. Decisions were made for irrational and wrong reasons (for many not all). MPs are elected to represent their constituents and any MP from a remain area who ignored the views of their constituents broke hundreds of years of parliamentary democracy. That is LITERALLY their job. Not to go with the majority nationally but their constituents. Otherwise any MP voting against the government is against democracy.

A stunt by Cameron that he only put into a manifesto not thinking he would win a majority could ruin this country socially and economically for generations. I will go and get a union flag tatoo and all will be fine. Smashing.

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Berty23 said:

My dad's mrs voted leave because she is racist. It is that simple. She said "at the school near me the majority of kids speak Urdu and that can't be right so I am voting to leave" I asked what part of the eu the Urdu speakers were from and she said "who cares they are all the same"

Anyone who thinks that it an isolated example of racism in the 70+ generation has nothing to do with the 70+ generation.

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The Rivet said:

You really are an obnoxious person. Do you have Parents of age or Grandparents? The 'disenfranchised' by definition would invariably mean the unrepresented or at street level, 'lost out'. That also by definition encompasses many poor people. Should those people be without a voice? As for the EU being a convenient scapegoat? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

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Lincoln Imp said:

Strong words, but you may have read too much into the post you reply to. The poster surely used the word 'disenfranchised' to describe people who feel they are not being listened to. A referendum gave them an opportunity to register their objection to being ignored or bypassed; a chance to say No to the status quo. For many of these people, so many of them deserving, the fact that the referendum was about the European Union was not especially importanQUOTE]

Indeed it was a protest vote, against the status quo that they felt shafted them. But its UK governments that have shafted them, not the European Union.

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