[Politics] Brexit

FatSuperman · Jul 26, 2017

beorhthelm said:
no... i dont know why this myth persists, if you remove tariffs, goods are cheaper. we'd remove tariffs leaving the EU. though you've missed the point anyway, which was whether we can shop at all or not.

Ignoring VAT, ignoring excise, HMRC took around £3.3 billion in import tax last year. If you think they will remove tariffs and give that up then I must assume you are horrendously drunk.

Imports from around the world, including the EU are going to change significantly. In the long term, on some things the consumer will probably win on, on others we'll lose. In the medium term, whilst we use WTO rules and tariffs, who knows! It's very very unlikely to be cheaper for the consumer, especially if you are importing from the EU. Putting the tariffs etc to one side, there are the practicalities of actually moving goods - everything from/to the EU will now have to clear customs. This can do nothing but add cost and delays to the current process. This will translate to increases to the consumer - hopefully this will be offset in the longer term by other factors, but who knows right now.

If you've ever bought anything online from the states you'll know what happens when it arrives in the U.K. You get a call / email / letter from an agent at the port letting you know they've cleared it through customs for you and that the fee is £x (duty, vat, clearance fees). This will probably be what happens for everything from the EU as well. HMRC IT system is never going to handle that volume

Herr Tubthumper · Jul 26, 2017

cunning fergus said:
Absolutely correct, I am heartily ashamed at my lack of grammatical accuracy.

What can you expect from a working class lad from Moulsecoomb................I know my place.

I'm not sure what class has to do with simple grammar; I learnt the difference between metaphors and similes at my state school.

BigGully · Jul 26, 2017

kevo said:
It's not me - it's the writer of the article!!!

Brexiters burying their heads in the sand as always. It is going to be a DISASTER.

He is a no mark, just an entrenched Europhile ..................... Steve Bullock worked at the UK Representation to the EU from 2010-2014 where he negotiated several EU regulations for the UK in EU Council working groups. He has also worked for the European Commission and the Department for International Development’s Europe Department.

WATFORD zero · Jul 26, 2017

beorhthelm said:
"no deal" is/was a negotiating position, though maybe misguided in that it says little so has been come to mean what ever the beholder means, good for leavers, terribles for remainers.

So, rather like Brexit, no-one knows what the f*** it means :shrug:

Over a year on from the vote, out of interest, when do you think Brexit voters will find out what they voted for ?

CHAPPERS · Jul 26, 2017

I look forward to our transitional deal and as we try to thrash out thew real deal that might be as good as the deal we already had.

cunning fergus · Jul 26, 2017

Herr Tubthumper said:
I'm not sure what class has to do with simple grammar; I learnt the difference between metaphors and similes at my state school.

No, you are absolutely right, everyone from the high born to the lowly dregs of society will have an understanding of the difference between a similie and a metaphor. It's English language 1.01, I really am utterly ashamed at my error.

I should have paid more attention at school.........a couple of my old teachers always said I would amount to nothing. They would love this valuable lesson you are giving me this morning.......Thank you.

Herr Tubthumper · Jul 26, 2017

cunning fergus said:
No, you are absolutely right, everyone from the high born to the lowly dregs of society will have an understanding of the difference between a similie and a metaphor. It's English language 1.01, I really am utterly ashamed at my error.

I should have paid more attention at school.........a couple of my old teachers always said I would amount to nothing. They would love this valuable lesson you are giving me this morning.......Thank you.

Alternatively you could have just quietly noted your error and moved on.....like I will.

ManOfSussex · Jul 26, 2017

BigGully said:
He is a no mark, just an entrenched Europhile ..................... Steve Bullock worked at the UK Representation to the EU from 2010-2014 where he negotiated several EU regulations for the UK in EU Council working groups. He has also worked for the European Commission and the Department for International Development’s Europe Department.

It seems to be a common theme though from most former and current diplomats and civil servants in regards to The UK's lack of readiness and Whitehall ministers not understanding the complexities of Brexit despite being warned who are prepared to speak out. I can recall Professor Steve Woolcock of The LSE who is training Liam Fox's department on how to do their jobs saying much the same in March. Are they all just entrenched Europhile, no marks?

Herr Tubthumper · Jul 26, 2017

ManOfSussex said:
It seems to be a common theme though from most former and current diplomats and civil servants in regards to The UK's lack of readiness and Whitehall ministers not understanding the complexities of Brexit despite being warned who are prepared to speak out. I can recall Professor Steve Woolcock of The LSE who is training Liam Fox's department on how to do their jobs saying much the same in March. Are they all just entrenched Europhile, no marks?

And aside from showing flippancy and a lack of any real and genuine argument [MENTION=5101]BigGully[/MENTION]s comment suggests he believes anyone who does a job is "entrenched" when it might just be the case they are a professional doing a professional job......just like the vast majority of us.

cunning fergus · Jul 26, 2017

Herr Tubthumper said:
Alternatively you could have just quietly noted your error and moved on.....like I will.

I could have, but as you correctly pointed out earlier it is simple grammar, and anyone posting or reading comments on this football fan message board would have winced at my reference to a metaphor when it should evidently been a similie.

You were the only one brave enough to call it out for what it was and by taking control of the situation like you did will have no doubt calmed those on here who were just quietly disgusted at my shame.

Don't you get all modest now, you have a very special talent. This board would really be completely different if it wasnt for your sage input on matters such as grammatical accuracy.

daveinprague · Jul 26, 2017

The Clamp · Jul 26, 2017

Claiming working class roots as a reason one can't grasp spelling and grammar is at best a weak excuse and at worse an insult to true working class people who despite their backgrounds are still very able and proficient in their grammar.

The truth of the matter is that in this world, when making an argument or stating one's case a good grasp of grammar is important for one to be taken seriously. It's the very base of being credible.

wellquickwoody · Jul 26, 2017

beorhthelm said:
looks like you havent followed through on your own analogy. i wasnt talking about getting benefits from membership without paying in, im refering to the misguided view that trade and commerce with the EU ends in 2019.

But Brexit is Brexit according to most, or are you advocating the UK allowing freedom of movement in exchange for free trade?

Lincoln Imp · Jul 26, 2017

studio150 said:
But we are buying these goods under EU deals not UK deals. We are likely to be shopping in Aldi but at Waitrose prices due to tariffs being imposed.

And just as importantly we will be trying to persuade others to buy goods previously priced at Aldi levels with, suddenly, Waitrose pricetags.

nicko31 · Jul 26, 2017

Q2 GDP growth in at 0.3%, the IMF's 1.7% still looks optimistic to me, and I thought they were always supposed to be talking things down.

We can't have our heads in the sand and keep piling on consumer debt forever, the reality of Brexit is starting to bite.

I heard an economist use the R word for the first time this morning on R4, she said 50/50 chance

wellquickwoody · Jul 26, 2017

cunning fergus said:
It's not like the Tesco club card though is it, and it certainly isn't a club.

I'm not aware of any club that operates a policy that requires less than 10% of its membership to pay the fees for the remaining 90%.

If you want to use a metaphor, then being in the EU is like a tax, we pay more tax than other countries bar Germany because we are richer than most, our money is then re-distributed to poorer countries.

In return for our tax we have limited influence due to not being in the euro and have to abide by rules imposed by an unelected politburo, like freedom of movement, that have been roundly rejected by the majority of the electorate.

No taxation without representation is a refrain that makes sense in the EU construct...........an old adage, people went to war for it.

Jeez, your blindness knows no bounds. You can call it a club, an agreement, a multilateral treaty, call it what ever you like. The reality is that commerce in the member countries HAS to adhere to the rules of the EU. Those companies can argue till they are blue in the face, but the law of their land is that they abide by the rules of the EU. That means trade tariffs, there is no room for discussion unless you believe that those in the 'club' will give preferential treatment to those outside of the club, and that is just cloud cuckoo land.

Herr Tubthumper · Jul 26, 2017

The Clamp said:
Claiming working class roots as a reason one can't grasp spelling and grammar is at best a weak excuse and at worse an insult to true working class people who despite their backgrounds are still very able and proficient in their grammar.

The truth of the matter is that in this world, when making an argument or stating one's case a good grasp of grammar is important for one to be taken seriously. It's the very base of being credible.

Very much this. And comments like his show his true contempt for the people he claims to represent.

ManOfSussex · Jul 26, 2017

Lincoln Imp said:
And just as importantly we will be trying to persuade others to buy goods previously priced at Aldi levels with, suddenly, Waitrose pricetags.

Could also be the problem of persuading them to pay Waitrose prices for goods that will now need checks, causing delays, to insure that Liam Fox and his new pal Donald haven't been pouring Domestos all over them to cut corners on standards.

JC Footy Genius · Jul 26, 2017

Baldseagull said:
But will they be British Jobs?https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jul/14/easyjet-austria-eu-flights-brexit

Yes? The budget airline said the new company will be called easyJet Europe and will be based in Vienna, while the people and planes that will fly for the new carrier are already employed and based in EU27 countries.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/easyjet-an...abin-crew-intake-it-creates-1200-jobs-1631786

Jim in the West said:
That'll be the case unless some deal gets worked out soon. easyJet have established an Austrian AOC to ensure they can continue to fly intra-EU flights post-Brexit, but that does nothing to avoid the cessation of flights between the UK and the EU. And it's fairly likely the Austrian AOC will be challenged in the courts, as overall management will still reside in the UK. The problem with doing a deal on aviation is that the EU has already said that it doesn't want to do piecemeal deals. As soon as we triggered Article 50 we gave the rest of the EU a huge bargaining chip - which is aviation. If we don't capitulate, the EU can simply cease all flights between the UK and the EU. Great tactics, Theresa!

PS: Most of the new jobs are to deal with natural wastage and existing shortages - they are not NEW new jobs....

.... said an EU spokesman. :facepalm:

beorhthelm · Jul 26, 2017

wellquickwoody said:
But Brexit is Brexit according to most, or are you advocating the UK allowing freedom of movement in exchange for free trade?

we've well established that brexit is different things, maybe people could move on. i have never had a problem with free movement, and happily exchange that for free trade. all this distracts further from the original point i came in at though, which is the notion that leaving EU leads to no trade, no aviation as so on. do you believe in that scenario, or concede its the barmy end of the remain view?

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