What choice have we had in the last 40 years? What choice would we have in the next 40 years? The choice is 'Now or Never'.
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[Politics] Brexit
- Thread starter KingstonSeagull
- Start date
What choice have we had in the last 40 years? What choice would we have in the next 40 years? The choice is 'Now or Never'.
GT49er
Well-known member
Leaving aside your emotive diatribe, no, if we'd voted to remain we'd have had even less say over the future direction of the EU. A remain vote, in the view of the EU policy makers, would be seen as a ringing endorsement of EU policy, and would have greatly weakened our negotiators hand in any future policy making.
I think we all witnessed what "deals" (or non deals if we had stayed in) Dave managed to get. Even with a chance that we might vote out, he got precious little, so what would we have negotiated in the future.
I really think that these "deals"
that he managed to supposedly get, were so poor that it helped sway a lot of fence sitters.
GT49er
Well-known member
I really think that these "deals"
UK voters in rejecting smoke and mirrors shock!
cunning fergus
Well-known member
- Jan 18, 2009
- 4,745
It's changing, Clegg on Marr this morning was inferring that Governments in other European countries now also have concerns about the EU's principles of freedom of movement. This was Clegg offering the prospect of change within the EU that would address the public's concerns on immigration.
Given his track record these sentiments amount to a massive U-turn on freedom of movement.........the EU and its political leadership/supporters know they are on the wrong side of the argument. They are backtracking, but too little too late.
Instead of attacking leave voters the remainers should really be turning their guns on the EU leadership and politicians like Clegg for Brexit.
These politicians thought they could face down the discontent........they were wrong. Suck it up suckers.
Green Cross Code Man
Wunt be druv
That is correct. Had the EU been a less extreme organisation much of this would not have happened. Now however, we are stuck with it.
It seems that the message about freedom of movement still isn't getting through to all the politicians though. Just heard a liberal MP on radio five accusing a Labour politician of living in cloud Cuckoo land. The essence of what he, the Labour MP was saying, was that we need to listen to the democratic vote of the people, she responded that amongst other things, the EU would never tighten up on the issue of free movement. How the liberals have the audacity to keep 'democrat' in their title is completely beyond me.
vegster
Sanity Clause
- May 5, 2008
- 27,892
I'm starting to feel sorry for President Trump already, his eyes have obviously gone if he genuinely thinks he had more people at his inauguration than Obama and his first meeting with a head of state is our very own robot, Mrs May ! Try grabbing some British pussy Mr President and all you will get is a handful of cobwebs and dust !
portslade seagull
Well-known member
There are a few frightened EU leaders around now. Merkel's empire is starting to crack.
JC Footy Genius
Bringer of TRUTH
- Jun 9, 2015
- 10,568
As Clegg's and the Lib Dem position is to reverse the democratic will of the majority (at any cost) before it can be enacted I take everything he/they say with a pinch of salt. A siren voice suggesting there may still be a magic option of retaining single/internal market membership and the EU suddenly coming to their senses about free movement looks like just another attempt to muddy the waters/ give false hope to the deluded.
JC Footy Genius
Bringer of TRUTH
- Jun 9, 2015
- 10,568
Labour's position on Brexit ...
I cannot fathom for one moment why she seems to continuously accept invitations to be interviewed by Andrew Neil, I have yet to see one interview where he hasnt aboslutely slaughtered her, and yet she keeps on coming back for more .......................
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portslade seagull
Well-known member
She's not fit for the post like most of the labour front bench
alfredmizen
Banned
- Mar 11, 2015
- 6,342
m o n e y
crookie
Well-known member
Well that's Labour's position crystal clear then !!!
Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk
JC Footy Genius
Bringer of TRUTH
- Jun 9, 2015
- 10,568
Possibly masochistic tendencies combined with a complete lack of self-awareness of her obvious limitations. But it is entertaining watching her trying to process/understand a question then try to formulate a vaguely credible answer.
Lincoln Imp
Well-known member
- Feb 2, 2009
- 5,964
I was simply querying your complete certainty about this, and I’m not sure your final sentence was necessary.
We can’t be sure what will happen in future, but in my view your predictions are too firmly based on what has happened in the past.
What has happened in the past is that the bureaucrats of the EU Commission, like bureaucrats from County Hall to Canberra, have accumulated too much power. The governing structure of the EU has encouraged it. Whilst not the sole cause, one side effect of this centralising has been the institution’s leaden-footed inability to change direction. Leaden-footed is what state bureaucrats are.
In 2010 David Cameron cynically promised to reduce immigration from fellow EU states. It was cynical because he knew he couldn’t deliver it. He couldn’t then and he still couldn’t in 2016.
I don’t think David Davies’s negotiators will be able to deliver now. The LibDems are right - no British Brexiteer, fresh from trashing the European Union and knee-deep in the mistaken belief that they need us more than we need them, is going to be able to get off the Eurostar and negotiate a dilution of freedom of movement. It’s not on the table.
But will it always be off the table? Tectonic plates are moving. Elections this year in the Netherlands, France and Germany will be played out against the background music of uncertainty about immigration legislation. Leading politicians in the first two of those countries are opening discussing the possibility of changing rules. Alternative for Germany is playing its UKIP-style role on the subject, as is Grillo in Italy.
And now, even senior figures within the Commission itself - vice president anyone? - are talking about change.
All this is new. If Le Pen's right-wing populists achieve an heroically narrow defeat in France - perhaps the most likely outcome - then the effect will further shake the complacency, just as a similar result in Britain last year would have done. It is arrogant to assume that it is just what happens in England that affects things and Brexiteers mustn't assume that if their narrow victory had gone the other way then everything would have stayed the same.
Further afield, we have changing views in the Visegrad countries, who would surely have supported British efforts to lead on the issue, and Scandinavian nations such as Finland, whose leaders are again raising the matter. To the best of my knowledge, none of these countries is likely to walk away from the union. But their accumulating strength will certainly see the EU evolve, whoever leads their efforts. That would probably have been Britain but for our decision to walk away.
Your Mum
Well-known member
- Dec 22, 2016
- 469
..your mum.
Garry Nelson's teacher
Well-known member
In fairness Neil slaughters most of his interviewees. I think the only ones he shows any mercy to are good looking females.