[Politics] Brexit

Soulman · Jan 15, 2017

alfredmizen said:
Please tell me you realise that's a piss take?

I would not lay any money on it .

pastafarian · Jan 15, 2017

Two Professors said:
Well I was going to suggest a truce,

why?
Remoaners (not the same as remainers) who want the vote overturned are weasels.There can be no truce with them until we have left the EU.

They have a clear agenda to reverse the vote, a truce will allow their lies and backsliding to putrefy the democratic process.
They can claim all they like that all they want to do is have more discussion to ensure we have the best deal, what they really mean is how can we overturn the vote and stay in the EU.

Extract taken from a long article in their own dodgy newspaper last week.

http://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top...nd_why_the_eu_is_worth_fighting_for_1_4844381

How to fight Brexit

There are three connected strands in the opposition to Brexit. One is to get our members of Parliament in both Houses to reject the advice of the advisory referendum. There are majorities in both Houses of Parliament for Remain. We must ask why MPs in the Commons have not yet demanded a free vote in which they exercise their own individual judgments on whether the UK is better in or out of the EU. One reason for the unseemly haste with which Brexiteers are trying to hustle the UK past the Article 50 trigger is that they wish to avoid such a vote at any cost. My own view is that MPs must be persuaded – lobbied, encouraged, supported, pressed – to demand a non-Party-whipped vote, and to vote according to their pre-June 23 publicly stated judgment on the question of EU membership. Such a vote would preserve our membership of the EU and safeguard the UK’s future.

The second is the various legal challenges on whether there has to be such a vote, and whether a Brexit trigger is revocable or not. This latter is the strategy favoured by my friend Jolyon Maugham QC, and he is taking crowd-funded legal action to explore the matter. His point is that if the article is triggered and, after a period of years some form of Brexit deal is reached but is held to be unsatisfactory in comparison to continued EU membership, Article 50 can be untriggered and the UK could reemain in the EU.

The third route is for there to be a future vote, either in Parliament or in a referendum – this latter naturally connected to the untriggering strategy – on the acceptability of any Brexit deal, rejection of the deal entailing continued EU membership.

pastafarian · Jan 15, 2017

Mental Lental said:
There is if you pretend to be an impartial immigration watchdog, and then cherry pick only the evidence that shows negative impacts of immigration while completely ignoring any research that shows any neutral or even positive effects of it.

Clearly you are a man who just reads the headlines and goes no further.

If you had actually read any briefing papers from migration watch you would know they do the opposite to what you are claiming. They look at fully any other research on migration and include it in their reports, some they conclude is sound research and some research they conclude is flawed.
They offer their own conclusions and also offer their own methodology.

In the course of this debate a few of their research publications were posted on here as a counter argument, remainers were asked what part of migration watch methodology was flawed numerous times......as of yet no one has been able to say their research and methodology leading to their conclusions is flawed.

the usual "bunch of sinister right wingers" is the only sort of guff that can be mustered

Deleted member 22389 · Jan 15, 2017

There is going to be a big meltdown on Tuesday when May spells out what is going to happen, which will concide with probably more news about our NHS, Trump. Us Leavers are the nastiest people on this earth.

Herr Tubthumper · Jan 15, 2017

pastafarian said:
why?
Remoaners (not the same as remainers) who want the vote overturned are weasels.There can be no truce with them until we have left the EU.

They have a clear agenda to reverse the vote, a truce will allow their lies and backsliding to putrefy the democratic process.
They can claim all they like that all they want to do is have more discussion to ensure we have the best deal, what they really mean is how can we overturn the vote and stay in the EU.

Extract taken from a long article in their own dodgy newspaper last week.

http://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top...nd_why_the_eu_is_worth_fighting_for_1_4844381

How to fight Brexit

There are three connected strands in the opposition to Brexit. One is to get our members of Parliament in both Houses to reject the advice of the advisory referendum. There are majorities in both Houses of Parliament for Remain. We must ask why MPs in the Commons have not yet demanded a free vote in which they exercise their own individual judgments on whether the UK is better in or out of the EU. One reason for the unseemly haste with which Brexiteers are trying to hustle the UK past the Article 50 trigger is that they wish to avoid such a vote at any cost. My own view is that MPs must be persuaded – lobbied, encouraged, supported, pressed – to demand a non-Party-whipped vote, and to vote according to their pre-June 23 publicly stated judgment on the question of EU membership. Such a vote would preserve our membership of the EU and safeguard the UK’s future.

The second is the various legal challenges on whether there has to be such a vote, and whether a Brexit trigger is revocable or not. This latter is the strategy favoured by my friend Jolyon Maugham QC, and he is taking crowd-funded legal action to explore the matter. His point is that if the article is triggered and, after a period of years some form of Brexit deal is reached but is held to be unsatisfactory in comparison to continued EU membership, Article 50 can be untriggered and the UK could reemain in the EU.

The third route is for there to be a future vote, either in Parliament or in a referendum – this latter naturally connected to the untriggering strategy – on the acceptability of any Brexit deal, rejection of the deal entailing continued EU membership.

This is an interesting article.

RESISTING BREXIT IS DEMOCRATIC

http://www.juliewardmep.eu/resisting_brexit_is_democratic

The Birdman · Jan 15, 2017

We start to stand up to the threats from Europe about Brexit and as soon as we try and fight back Coryben starts to be criterial towards the British Government when standing up for Britain's interest helping the other European states to make it hard for the UK.

studio150 · Jan 15, 2017

alfredmizen said:
Please tell me you realise that's a piss take?

The words speak for themselves, I would have thought that the intent is clear for all to see. I merely posted it to bring a degree of amusement to the thread this afternoon

Baldseagull · Jan 15, 2017

pastafarian said:
why?
Remoaners (not the same as remainers) who want the vote overturned are weasels.There can be no truce with them until we have left the EU.

They have a clear agenda to reverse the vote, a truce will allow their lies and backsliding to putrefy the democratic process.
They can claim all they like that all they want to do is have more discussion to ensure we have the best deal, what they really mean is how can we overturn the vote and stay in the EU.

Extract taken from a long article in their own dodgy newspaper last week.

http://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top...nd_why_the_eu_is_worth_fighting_for_1_4844381

How to fight Brexit

There are three connected strands in the opposition to Brexit. One is to get our members of Parliament in both Houses to reject the advice of the advisory referendum. There are majorities in both Houses of Parliament for Remain. We must ask why MPs in the Commons have not yet demanded a free vote in which they exercise their own individual judgments on whether the UK is better in or out of the EU. One reason for the unseemly haste with which Brexiteers are trying to hustle the UK past the Article 50 trigger is that they wish to avoid such a vote at any cost. My own view is that MPs must be persuaded – lobbied, encouraged, supported, pressed – to demand a non-Party-whipped vote, and to vote according to their pre-June 23 publicly stated judgment on the question of EU membership. Such a vote would preserve our membership of the EU and safeguard the UK’s future.

The second is the various legal challenges on whether there has to be such a vote, and whether a Brexit trigger is revocable or not. This latter is the strategy favoured by my friend Jolyon Maugham QC, and he is taking crowd-funded legal action to explore the matter. His point is that if the article is triggered and, after a period of years some form of Brexit deal is reached but is held to be unsatisfactory in comparison to continued EU membership, Article 50 can be untriggered and the UK could reemain in the EU.

The third route is for there to be a future vote, either in Parliament or in a referendum – this latter naturally connected to the untriggering strategy – on the acceptability of any Brexit deal, rejection of the deal entailing continued EU membership.

The only assault on democracy is from hard Brexiters who want to shut down any opinion outside of their own. Anyone wanting the result overturned is asking for that to happen in a democratic way. You fear not getting the result you want second time around, or fear allowing the Parliament, whose sovereignty you so wish to protect, to apply their sovereignty and have a say that might go against your view, and you fear it because you feel that democracy would not give you what you want, and you don't want to take that risk.

Two Professors · Jan 15, 2017

studio150 said:
I see you have decided to fully support the wishes of Mrs May already and are right behind her desire that 'the victors have the responsibility to act magnanimously'

It must be a proud day in your household.

I was fully prepared to act magnanimously as per Mrs. May's wishes,but a total lack of fellow-feeling from the sad sacks of the anti-democrats has soured my spirit of reconciliation.That needs two sides willing to go forward together,without all the snide!

Baldseagull · Jan 15, 2017

cunning fergus said:
Difficult is an understatement, and belies your lack of understanding of the financial services industry and the associated markets.

One of the critical reasons that the UK is a global financial hub is the legal system, which is based on common law. The UK legal system is trusted and is aligned with the US common law. Common law is the underlying law in all the major global financial markets and sets the legal framework for the governance of companies. This legal system is trusted and desired, its why many global companies list on the stock markets, in those countries, principally NY, HK and LON.

The legal system in Europe is not, it does not come close..........notwithstanding the technical architecture they could not produce a credible legal system. You are on the losing side on this one (again).

Give up.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_law

I wonder how it is that they do any business at all on the continent then? The legal system is not the big problem, but there are big problems, it would be complex and damaging in the short term, almost like Brexit really, but the difference being that there is a clear and identifiable long term benefit.

Two Professors · Jan 15, 2017

Herr Tubthumper said:
This is an interesting article.

RESISTING BREXIT IS DEMOCRATIC

http://www.juliewardmep.eu/resisting_brexit_is_democratic

Glad that delusional MEP will soon be unemployed.Doesn't matter what the people she is supposed to represent think or want,her view is paramount.

GoldWithFalmer · Jan 15, 2017

melias shoes said:
I've been licking my wounds after yesterday's encounter with the clamp.

Ha,but they are mere superficial,he was ravaged and went to a French (of sorts) market for some Boursin cheese,a bottle of red and some French dressing,wound dressings.

alfredmizen · Jan 15, 2017

studio150 said:
The words speak for themselves, I would have thought that the intent is clear for all to see. I merely posted it to bring a degree of amusement to the thread this afternoon

No you didn't, you hoped that people wouldn't realise , you dont sound.like.the sharpest tool in the box after.your comment.about.whether alp Mehmet was a Greek or Turkish Cypriot.

Deleted member 22389 · Jan 15, 2017

Baldseagull said:
The only assault on democracy is from hard Brexiters who want to shut down any opinion outside of their own. Anyone wanting the result overturned is asking for that to happen in a democratic way. You fear not getting the result you want second time around, or fear allowing the Parliament, whose sovereignty you so wish to protect, to apply their sovereignty and have a say that might go against your view, and you fear it because you feel that democracy would not give you what you want, and you don't want to take that risk.

Remainers had it so good for so long, they had the establishment on their side, but It didn't work. What they did instead was manage to piss people off. My wife was one of many undecided voters until Obama opened his mouth and told us we are going to back of the queue. You really cant treat people like fing idiots in the way Remain did. The vote was Leave, and it should be respected.

GoldWithFalmer · Jan 15, 2017

larus said:
I really don't see how anyone can seriously expect us to have

1. Control of our borders (which everyone must agree was a major point of the Brexit case)
and
2. Remain (sorry - my bad) in the customs union which insists of Free Movement.

Something has to give. Either we leave the EU, accept Free Movement or the EU bands its rules.

They will not (perhaps correctly from their standpoint) relax the 4 Freedoms,this leaves us with the most logical choice,Leave and Leave in totality,much what many assumed (dangerous word that) on the Ballot paper back in June...... [MENTION=11191]Pretty pink fairy[/MENTION] is right,we are leaving and that's that,not testing the water..

alfredmizen · Jan 15, 2017

Baldseagull said:
The only assault on democracy is from hard Brexiters who want to shut down any opinion outside of their own. Anyone wanting the result overturned is asking for that to happen in a democratic way. You fear not getting the result you want second time around, or fear allowing the Parliament, whose sovereignty you so wish to protect, to apply their sovereignty and have a say that might go against your view, and you fear it because you feel that democracy would not give you what you want, and you don't want to take that risk.

How about bollox, there was a vote on whether we wanted to leave the EU , not whether there Would be hard or soft brexit , we obviously want to negotiate the best terms but tbe vote diddnt ask the question about terms , you and your ilk are trying to move the goalposts plain and simple.

portslade seagull · Jan 15, 2017

Baldseagull said:
The only assault on democracy is from hard Brexiters who want to shut down any opinion outside of their own. Anyone wanting the result overturned is asking for that to happen in a democratic way. You fear not getting the result you want second time around, or fear allowing the Parliament, whose sovereignty you so wish to protect, to apply their sovereignty and have a say that might go against your view, and you fear it because you feel that democracy would not give you what you want, and you don't want to take that risk.

The result was gained in a democratic way the 1st time round. Just in case you are unclear the British public voted out, yes out. Some sad losers are now trying to be undemocratic because they didn't like the 1st result. They didnt moan at all before the result because they were so cocksure that they would win by a landslide . You really do need to get over it. It's a bit like football really, I am now looking foward to Friday night and have put the Preston defeat to bed.

GoldWithFalmer · Jan 15, 2017

portslade seagull said:
, I am now looking foward to Friday night and have put the Preston defeat to bed.

Go post on another thread if your going to talk football in these parts :jester:

vegster · Jan 15, 2017

bashlsdir said:
Remainers had it so good for so long, they had the establishment on their side, but It didn't work. What they did instead was manage to piss people off. My wife was one of many undecided voters until Obama opened his mouth and told us we are going to back of the queue. You really cant treat people like fing idiots in the way Remain did. The vote was Leave, and it should be respected.

Now we have President Trump, committed to making America "great again " and creating more jobs in America than any other President in history ...... and first on the list now is the poor friendless UK . Given Mr Trumps idea of how to make a good deal what do you think is going to happen to us ? ....

Baldseagull · Jan 15, 2017

bashlsdir said:
Remainers had it so good for so long, they had the establishment on their side, but It didn't work. What they did instead was manage to piss people off. My wife was one of many undecided voters until Obama opened his mouth and told us we are going to back of the queue. You really cant treat people like fing idiots in the way Remain did. The vote was Leave, and it should be respected.

So reassuring that your wife made her decision on a logical decision after weighing up the pros and cons.

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