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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?


  • Total voters
    1,081




Two Professors

Two Mad Professors
Jul 13, 2009
7,617
Multicultural Brum


Brighton Mod

Its All Too Beautiful
Whilst all the journo's get into a lather about Boris and the pundits pass their opinion, no doubt the article by Boris will have put pressure on May to deliver a worthwhile brexit speech and not some wishey washy, transition period fudge to the Europeans. It may well also have been part of a scheme for her to be seen to be pushed to this, any comments from david Davies and Liam Fox?
 




Hampster Gull

New member
Dec 22, 2010
13,462
Well of course we are going to celebrate CETA.It is the basis of our trade deal with Canada when we get out,as agreed by May and Trudeau.Saved us loads of time.So it really is ace,isn't it?:)

You trust the bumbling political fools in this country to take advantage of this? Ha, I hope so but little evidence they look beyond their nose ATM
 




Lincoln Imp

Well-known member
Feb 2, 2009
5,964
Well of course we are going to celebrate CETA.It is the basis of our trade deal with Canada when we get out,as agreed by May and Trudeau.Saved us loads of time.So it really is ace,isn't it?:)

Yep, knocking off an agreement with Canada should be the second easiest trade deal in human history. If we can sign 'em up a few days after leaving the EU then UK-Canada trade might even continue at levels no worse than they would have done anyway. It's another triumph for Dr Fox.
 


GT49er

Well-known member
Feb 1, 2009
46,482
Gloucester
I certainly don't have the numbers, which was why I asked someone who suggested it was a widespread problem.

Fair point. Nobody knows exactly, including the government. Do you want the pro-leave figures on the subject, or the pro-remainers figures? However, there can't be much serious argument with, 'a lot', and 'too many' - the weight of circumstantial evidence is pretty convincing, even, albeit reluctantly I guess, to fair-minded remainers.
 


Jan 30, 2008
31,981
Yep, knocking off an agreement with Canada should be the second easiest trade deal in human history. If we can sign 'em up a few days after leaving the EU then UK-Canada trade might even continue at levels no worse than they would have done anyway. It's another triumph for Dr Fox.
you don't want to do it like that , you want to do it like this :yawn:
regards
DR
 






ManOfSussex

We wunt be druv
Apr 11, 2016
14,730
Rape of Hastings, Sussex


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,265
Oh dear. Did anyone seriously think this wouldn't be the outcome? https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/44934...end-up-with-theresa-may-being-humiliated/amp/

But they need us more than we need them....

i did think the outcome would be otherwise. i couldnt envisage that the EU would deliberatly damage their own just to make a political point, while also indirectly harming their own objective (so they would just abandon the 48% voting for? ). seem their opening negotiation position wasnt just a position but actual policy objective. so called that wrong, and they just shown why we must leave, otherwise be steam rollered into accepting Euro, centralised EU finance policy, foreign policy, army, and other institutions of state. shame as they could have negotiated a clever compromise.

as it stands they will still eventually compromise on many areas (because otherwise the pain on own industries and commerce will be too great) but it will be an ugly looking one born of bitterness rather than mutual collaboration.
 






JC Footy Genius

Bringer of TRUTH
Jun 9, 2015
10,568
Yanis Varoufakis, in written and broadcast interviews, called it all back in the spring. His knowledge and loathing of The EU is greater than most. Never mind.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/03/the-six-brexit-traps-that-will-defeat-theresa-may

..no voters in any country can empower their government to oppose Brussels.

There is a long EU tradition of neglecting democratic mandates in the name of respecting them..
For all their concerns with rules, treaties, processes, competitiveness, freedom of movement, terrorism etc, only one prospect truly terrifies the EU’s deep establishment: democracy.


Indeed. #takebackcontrol
 






ManOfSussex

We wunt be druv
Apr 11, 2016
14,730
Rape of Hastings, Sussex
OK, so it's 'no deal' then.

Which means no transitional deal then. Just the 35 regulatory bodies to set up and be running to replace those pan-EU ones in 18 months, customs infrastructures not in place, passporting rights and financial services in a legal grey area, Irish border and citizens rights not resolved and everyone's favourite chestnut - aviation - obviously despite leaving the open skies agreement, everything will carry on as before without a deal and flights won't be grounded - to name but a few.

The Commons Select Committee referred to 'no deal' as mutually assured destruction.

The EU v The Eurosceptic rump of The Conservative and Unionist Party - in hindsight you've got more chance of 2 scorpions in a jam jar coming to a sensible mutual arrangement.
 
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ManOfSussex

We wunt be druv
Apr 11, 2016
14,730
Rape of Hastings, Sussex
..no voters in any country can empower their government to oppose Brussels.

There is a long EU tradition of neglecting democratic mandates in the name of respecting them..
For all their concerns with rules, treaties, processes, competitiveness, freedom of movement, terrorism etc, only one prospect truly terrifies the EU’s deep establishment: democracy.


Indeed. #takebackcontrol

I knew Varoufakis would get you excited. :thumbsup:
 


Berty23

Well-known member
Jun 26, 2012
3,167
i did think the outcome would be otherwise. i couldnt envisage that the EU would deliberatly damage their own just to make a political point, while also indirectly harming their own objective (so they would just abandon the 48% voting for? ). seem their opening negotiation position wasnt just a position but actual policy objective. so called that wrong, and they just shown why we must leave, otherwise be steam rollered into accepting Euro, centralised EU finance policy, foreign policy, army, and other institutions of state. shame as they could have negotiated a clever compromise.

as it stands they will still eventually compromise on many areas (because otherwise the pain on own industries and commerce will be too great) but it will be an ugly looking one born of bitterness rather than mutual collaboration.

Which is exactly how the leaving press will portray this. They will completely overlook the fact that this was always going to happen and why many wanted to remain because we will be hit very hard. The irony will be those who say "that is why we need to take back control" will also be people who insist that Scotland should remain part of Britain even though many of them want sovereignty. It appears people have different definitions of what should be sovereign.

People will overlook the fact that leavers said

1) we will have a stronger economy
2) they need us more than we need them

So now it will be all about escaping the tyrants. Maybe this is like a divorce after all. I wonder what proportion of divorces end with both parties a) wanting what is best for the other and b) being more wealthy.

I suspect Boris is after the sack so he can distance himself from this car crash.
 


CHAPPERS

DISCO SPENG
Jul 5, 2003
44,757
IFS’s deputy director Carl Emmerson

The Office for Budget Responsibility forecasts the outlook for the UK economy and the public finances; these forecasts have been adopted by the chancellor as the government’s own. They contain an allowance of almost £250m per week — not £350m — for funding that could in principle go to the NHS rather than the EU. But this would involve no state support for any other activities, such as subsidies for agriculture, that are at present funded in the UK by the EU.

The bigger picture is that the forecast health of the public finances was downgraded by £15bn per year — or almost £300m per week — as a direct result of the Brexit vote. Not only will we not regain control of £350m weekly as a result of Brexit, we are likely to make a net fiscal loss from it. Those are the numbers and forecasts which the government has adopted. It is perhaps surprising that members of the government are suggesting rather different figures.
 






beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,265
Which is exactly how the leaving press will portray this. They will completely overlook the fact that this was always going to happen and why many wanted to remain because we will be hit very hard.

we should remain because the EU is nasty and wont play nice is hardly a positive position to sell the EU. and in part why many are against the EU in the first place. the EU just cant envision a two tier Europe, free trade and free movement for some, political integration for others. maybe because they fear most populations in Europe will want the former without the second, against the aims and objectives of EU architects.
 



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