[Politics] Brexit

Mellor 3 Ward 4 · Aug 7, 2017

Brighton Lines said:
Firstly, I voted to stay.

Secondly, this research is utter bollocks and suggests that the working classes, who have been shafted for years, don't have the right to stick two fingers up at the establishment because they are somehow inferior.

The only education lacking was honest knowledge and understanding of the ramifications of voting out. That was the government's fault. Even then, given how corrupt and undemocratic the EU is, I'm not surprised people wanted out.

I still say we should have remained. But we were voted out. That's it. Out. But we do need to be sensible about are relationship with the EU from now on. The wrong decision could be too costly.

You're right, but it wasn't just the government to blame. The whole remain campaign was way too arrogant and complacent. Where was Corbyn? Or maybe he wanted to leave?

GreersElbow · Aug 7, 2017

sir albion said:
The thickies are the university students as they have zero life experience and reading a few books makes them highly experienced apparently.I suggest there's to much brainwashing going on in universities these days from key liberal leaders and co.

I'm a thickie?

I have an undergraduate degree in international relations and a masters in investment banking. I have worked since 16 years old, I have worked in accountancy, both in an urban and rural setting. I have worked in debt recovery for a large water company and now work for one of Britain's largest exporters and in its risk department.

I guess I'm a thickie because I'm more concerned about economic welfare than civil pride.

Raleigh Chopper · Aug 7, 2017

Buzzer said:
This just about sums up for me the oh-so-smug tw@ts on here who claim to be socialist and supporting the common man but sneer at old boys like this, call them thick, that they don't deserve the same voting rights as the self-proclaimed urban sophisticates and he'll be dead soon so why bother worrying about what he wants?

You know who you are and shame on you, you pathetic hypocrites.

[tweet]894141403055493120[/tweet]

Except that they clearly do not give a toss for their grandchildren, unless they don't like johnny foreigner either.

portlock seagull · Aug 7, 2017

Not Andy Naylor said:
I don't have a problem with the result of the vote - that's democracy for you (although I wonder how leavers can claim that having a second vote on the Brexit deal is somehow undemocratic. Surely if you believe in democracy in one instance, you should believe in it again.)

What I do disagree with is the government's decision to allow a major constitutional change to be decided on a simple majority of those voting, rather than a majority of those eligible, or a two-thirds majority, as almost every other body in the world would insist on. But as has been said, the Remain side were complacent and also ignorant of opinion beyond their own bubbles.

I wonder what the result would have been if e.g. only non-immigrants before 2003 and voting age had been allowed to vote? A lot was made of London not voting to leave, however that would have been a turkey voting for xmas surprise if it had been anything but. Not only is London's populace almost entirely made up of people from other countries these days but it's also the richest, we do all right by Europe demographic for those that aren't. Therefore, if the debate and decision was chiefly about immigration levels being too high, isn't it fair to see what the result might have been without the immigrants vote (1st and 2nd generations perhaps included)? Be interested to see what the final result would have been like, especially as these have much larger birthrates because of age and/or cultural factors - anyone know what this would have looked like, albeit it's now irrelevant because as you say, Leave Lost.

Buzzer · Aug 7, 2017

Tooting Gull said:
It appears you think you have a monopoly on 'truth', but obviously you don't. No one does.

Au contraire. I have no more a monopoly on truth as you do on determining who does or doesn't get to vote on what happens to this country.

We both know what the purpose of starting this thread was all about though, don't we? You started a new thread when there's a thousand page one already full of Brexit news. Your thread title gives your game away clearly, it was a cheap shot at people who you consider thick. And you can all pat yourselves on the back at the jolly jape but my point still stands. Who are you to call people like that old boy thick?

Buzzer · Aug 7, 2017

Raleigh Chopper said:
Except that they clearly do not give a toss for their grandchildren, unless they don't like johnny foreigner either.

There we go again. If they're not thick, they're racist and/or selfish. You ever heard of the old adage that those who don't learn from history are destined to repeat the same mistake? That kind of ignorance is you personified. One of the reasons why so many people voted Brexit was because their concerns were brushed aside as crypto-racism or pig ignorance by politicians who are so out of touch with their electorate that they think that they think they deign to rule over the unwashed masses like some noblesse oblige.

GreersElbow · Aug 7, 2017

Buzzer said:
There we go again. If they're not thick, they're racist and/or selfish. You ever heard of the old adage that those who don't learn from history are destined to repeat the same mistake? That kind of ignorance is you personified. One of the reasons why so many people voted Brexit was because their concerns were brushed aside as crypto-racism or pig ignorance by politicians who are so out of touch with their electorate that they think that they think they deign to rule over the unwashed masses like some noblesse oblige.

You've just lost your entire argument.

Easy to also avoid more factual replies, isn't it.... another dupey.

Thunder Bolt · Aug 7, 2017

portlock seagull said:
I wonder what the result would have been if e.g. only non-immigrants before 2003 and voting age had been allowed to vote? A lot was made of London not voting to leave, however that would have been a turkey voting for xmas surprise if it had been anything but. Not only is London's populace almost entirely made up of people from other countries these days but it's also the richest, we do all right by Europe demographic for those that aren't. Therefore, if the debate and decision was chiefly about immigration levels being too high, isn't it fair to see what the result might have been without the immigrants vote (1st and 2nd generations perhaps included)? Be interested to see what the final result would have been like, especially as these have much larger birthrates because of age and/or cultural factors - anyone know what this would have looked like, albeit it's now irrelevant because as you say, Leave Lost.

Did they?

GreersElbow · Aug 7, 2017

Thunder Bolt said:
Did they?

Alternative universe, or a liberal democrat. I'd go for the latter, I left that party because of their nauseating repetitive argument for a second referendum..

ManOfSussex · Aug 7, 2017

portlock seagull said:
I wonder what the result would have been if e.g. only non-immigrants before 2003 and voting age had been allowed to vote? A lot was made of London not voting to leave, however that would have been a turkey voting for xmas surprise if it had been anything but. Not only is London's populace almost entirely made up of people from other countries these days but it's also the richest, we do all right by Europe demographic for those that aren't. Therefore, if the debate and decision was chiefly about immigration levels being too high, isn't it fair to see what the result might have been without the immigrants vote (1st and 2nd generations perhaps included)? Be interested to see what the final result would have been like, especially as these have much larger birthrates because of age and/or cultural factors - anyone know what this would have looked like, albeit it's now irrelevant because as you say, Leave Lost.

Why 2003?

Eeyore · Aug 7, 2017

Mellor 3 Ward 4 said:
You're right, but it wasn't just the government to blame. The whole remain campaign was way too arrogant and complacent. Where was Corbyn? Or maybe he wanted to leave?

He doesn't really like the EU. I think he gets it from a social perspective but, like many (myself included), would only vote to stay for fear that leaving is a worse option. Cowardly, perhaps, but I would still do the same again.

Ludensian Gull · Aug 7, 2017

GreersElbow said:
It's attitudes like this that really piss me off. The most significant vote in decades, and people are acting like it's a game.

Oh, you live in Lincolnshire - no wonders.

So do you , don't you :tosser:

Thunder Bolt · Aug 7, 2017

Buzzer said:
There we go again. If they're not thick, they're racist and/or selfish. You ever heard of the old adage that those who don't learn from history are destined to repeat the same mistake? That kind of ignorance is you personified. One of the reasons why so many people voted Brexit was because their concerns were brushed aside as crypto-racism or pig ignorance by politicians who are so out of touch with their electorate that they think that they think they deign to rule over the unwashed masses like some noblesse oblige.

As a pensioner (who voted Remain) I know of a lot of people who genuinely believed the money paid would be spent on the NHS. I tried to point out that we didn't actually lose £350K because of the subsidies and rebates, but headlines capture imaginations, and then people won't budge.

sams dad · Aug 7, 2017

Live by the sea said:
I'm in Camp Buzzer

Yep, same here.

GreersElbow · Aug 7, 2017

Ludensian Gull said:
So do you , don't you

And my point again. You're not exactly presenting yourself well...again. :wanker:

Buzzer · Aug 7, 2017

GreersElbow said:
You've just lost your entire argument.

Easy to also avoid more factual replies, isn't it.... another dupey.

What? How can I give a factual reply to a question that asks of an old bloke that I've clearly never met in my life if he voted Brexit because he hates his grandchildren or was it because his grandchildren are racist?'

Engage brain first, eh?

Cheshire Cat · Aug 7, 2017

Just goes to show there are more thickies out there than many people thought. Democracy was never a good way to run a country.

GreersElbow · Aug 7, 2017

Buzzer said:
Eh? What? How can I give a factual reply to a question that asks 'did an old bloke that I've never met in my life vote Brexit because he hates his grandchildren or was it because his grandchildren are racist?'

You're odd.

I'd suggest you go back through the thread. However, your argument about ad-homien has been negated by your own...

BN9 BHA · Aug 7, 2017

Remind me how hard it is to get into university these days?

GreersElbow · Aug 7, 2017

bn9 bha said:
Remind me how hard it is to get into university these days?

About as difficult as it was back in the olden days.

When it was free, paid by the credit card.

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