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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

  • Total voters
    1,081


nicko31

nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
17,571
Gods country fortnightly
JC Footy Genius said:
It would appear 'Brexit means Brexit' after all. The Hard/Real/Clean/Red, White and Blue variety.
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You might have to take the blue out of it, think the Scots will be off and who can blame them. So, out of the European Union and quite possibly our own too
 








JC Footy Genius

JC Footy Genius

Bringer of TRUTH
Jun 9, 2015
10,568
Behind Enemy Lines said:
Most people didn't vote to leave the single market. People voted to leave over sovereignty issues, a perfectly respectable position, and / or immigration, less so in my view. But many voted out over vague notions of “ taking back control” without ever knowing what that slogan really meant. We do nearly half of our trade with the EU but that seems to count for next to nothing, never mind the 48 % of us who voted to remain. In my view, a terrible decision and one which has absolutely no democratic mandate and will leave most of us poorer.
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Main players on both sides of the referendum campaign made it crystal clear on numerous occasions that a vote to leave = ending membership of the single/internal market. The EU made it crystal clear that we could not pick and choose/cherry pick if we voted leave. Retaining single/internal market membership always was, is incompatible with regaining soverignity/taking back control in any meaningful way imo. Many Remainers views on democratic legitimacy seem rather self serving and conveniant. It's like listening to lectures about democratic legitimacy from members of the North Korean Government.

I expect we will still do a significant amount of tariff-free trade with our European partners after we leave.
 


larus

larus

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
6,580
In the land of hope and expectation....
nicko31 said:
You might have to take the blue out of it, think the Scots will be off and who can blame them. So, out of the European Union and quite possibly our own too
Click to expand...

You're deluded if you seriously think that the Scots will leave. They've been told that the Spanish will not let them in to the EU - full stop. Acceptance needs a unanimous vote. Also, the Scots didn't vote for independence when oil was about $1.40 - $1.50, so the economic argument is even worse now.

The loss of Scottish trade to the rest of the UK would not be serious - the loss of the rest of UK trade to Scotland, plus the subsidies and having to have their own currency will cripple their economy. Even wee Krankies advisors are telling her that her plans don't stack up.
 




Bob'n'weave

Bob'n'weave

Well-known member
Nov 18, 2016
1,970
Nr Lewes
JC Footy Genius said:
Main players on both sides of the referendum campaign made it crystal clear on numerous occasions that a vote to leave = ending membership of the single/internal market. The EU made it crystal clear that we could not pick and choose/cherry pick if we voted leave. Retaining single/internal market membership always was, is incompatible with regaining soverignity/taking back control in any meaningful way imo. Many Remainers views on democratic legitimacy seem rather self serving and conveniant. It's like listening to lectures about democratic legitimacy from members of the North Korean Government.

I expect we will still do a significant amount of tariff-free trade with our European partners after we leave.
Click to expand...

This.
However I do feel that we are already seeing a softening of the EU, 'out is out' scare tactic. TM will be able to negotiate the transition for the benefit of the UK and EU member states who need/want to keep trading with us. There is no exit, just a transition that must suit all parties. To think that the EU are going to 'punish' the UK somehow is just not true, it just sells newspapers.
 


JC Footy Genius

JC Footy Genius

Bringer of TRUTH
Jun 9, 2015
10,568
Bob'n'weave said:
This.
However I do feel that we are already seeing a softening of the EU, 'out is out' scare tactic. TM will be able to negotiate the transition for the benefit of the UK and EU member states who need/want to keep trading with us. There is no exit, just a transition that must suit all parties. To think that the EU are going to 'punish' the UK somehow is just not true, it just sells newspapers.
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Absolutely. Behind closed doors, they want a special deal on accessing the City. With Trump's disdain for trade blocks/deals and derogatory comments about the EU, Germany, Car tariffs etc does anyone really think the EU is in a position to play hardball.
 


Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,487
The Fatherland
JC Footy Genius said:
Absolutely. Behind closed doors, they want a special deal on accessing the City. With Trump's disdain for trade blocks/deals and derogatory comments about the EU, Germany, Car tariffs etc does anyone really think the EU is in a position to play hardball.
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The EU is the biggest economy in the world. I'd say it carries weight.
 














Behind Enemy Lines

Behind Enemy Lines

Well-known member
Jul 18, 2003
4,801
London
Titanic said:
the US does $250bn of trade with the EU... and it is not in the 'internal market' nor does it have a trade deal. What is the panic about?
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The US/UK trade figures are good but you're ignoring the fact that we do 44% of our trade with the EU, nearly half. I'm not panicing, I just don't think it's in our interests to leave the single market when so much of our trade is sensibly with our nearest geographical neighbours.
 










DavidinSouthampton

DavidinSouthampton

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 3, 2012
16,580
Two Professors said:
If you don't think Obama was being spiteful by dismissing 35 Russian 'diplomats' just before leaving,when he has known of their activities for the last 8 years,then you are stupid.Almost as stupid as Obama closing the Russian 'missions' which the NSA and no doubt GCHQ had a nice easy task monitoring.Now the hackers will have to be hunted down again.Spiteful enough for you,or would you like more?
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I guess I'm stupid, then, and you, with a name like two professors, are obviously highly intelligent and are wonderfully suited to running the world.

I''m sure Mr Obama made those and other decisions on the spur of a moment by himself without thinking just to pi$$ people off, which is what spiteful would mean to me. maybe you have a different definition.
 


Baldseagull

Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
10,944
Crawley
larus said:
You're deluded if you seriously think that the Scots will leave. They've been told that the Spanish will not let them in to the EU - full stop. Acceptance needs a unanimous vote. Also, the Scots didn't vote for independence when oil was about $1.40 - $1.50, so the economic argument is even worse now.

The loss of Scottish trade to the rest of the UK would not be serious - the loss of the rest of UK trade to Scotland, plus the subsidies and having to have their own currency will cripple their economy. Even wee Krankies advisors are telling her that her plans don't stack up.
Click to expand...

I thought all that about about Brexit.
 




Behind Enemy Lines

Behind Enemy Lines

Well-known member
Jul 18, 2003
4,801
London
JC Footy Genius said:
Main players on both sides of the referendum campaign made it crystal clear on numerous occasions that a vote to leave = ending membership of the single/internal market. The EU made it crystal clear that we could not pick and choose/cherry pick if we voted leave. Retaining single/internal market membership always was, is incompatible with regaining soverignity/taking back control in any meaningful way imo. Many Remainers views on democratic legitimacy seem rather self serving and conveniant. It's like listening to lectures about democratic legitimacy from members of the North Korean Government.

I expect we will still do a significant amount of tariff-free trade with our European partners after we leave.
Click to expand...

No, a vote to leave the EU did not mean leaving the Single Market. The Leave campaign ran ran on re-claiming some legislative powers and to cut immigration. There was very little substance about the single market. That has been more than demonstrated by the conversation about what leaving means which the country's been having for the past seven months.
And no need for the North Korean comment. Many of us do try and engage in a reasonable way. I may not agree with Brexit but it doesn't make me a Stalinist
 


Titanic

Titanic

Super Moderator
Helpful Moderator
Jul 5, 2003
39,067
West Sussex
Behind Enemy Lines said:
No, a vote to leave the EU did not mean leaving the Single Market. The Leave campaign ran ran on re-claiming some legislative powers and to cut immigration. There was very little substance about the single market. That has been more than demonstrated by the conversation about what leaving means which the country's been having for the past seven months.
And no need for the North Korean comment. Many of us do try and engage in a reasonable way. I may not agree with Brexit but it doesn't make me a Stalinist
Click to expand...

There is a clue in the name 'internal market'. We are leaving it.
 


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