[Politics] Brexit

Herr Tubthumper · Feb 19, 2017

GT49er said:
Precisely. The UK government, not the EU. That's a good reason, and why many of us voted to leave.

Yes, neglect because successive governments were too concerned with 'Being at the Top Table' in Europe, exercising power and influence in EU policy making and generally 'Being at the Heart of Europe' (in all of which they largely fell short of their objectives) while all the while ignoring what was going on back home, right under their feet (but outside the M25 to a large extent too!)

Which doesn't seem to have cut much ice in the areas that voted for Brexit. Perhaps the investment was poorly targeted, or mismanaged, or just didn't trickle down past the people who got first dibs in the trough. Anyway, that's an economic argument, and one thing everyone should have learned from Brexit is that using economic arguments was a loser.

Yet Germany has managed all this including absorbing an entire nation into the Republik whilst being in the EU. Makes you wonder doesn't?

Deleted member 22389 · Feb 19, 2017

Europeans are obstinate, it's built in to their culture. Dealing with the EU is like trying to get your wife permission to cook something in your Italian mothers kitchen, it's simply not going to happen without some sort of takeover going on in between. If the EU understood us they would have done us a deal years ago. Lesson for the future EU and our moaning remain politicians, stop treating people like idiots and listen.

Neville's Breakfast · Feb 19, 2017

Herr Tubthumper said:
Yet Germany has managed all this including absorbing an entire nation into the Republik whilst being in the EU. Makes you wonder doesn't?

Germany benefits from being in a currency area that does not price in its economic activity into its exchange rate. It is a perpetually devalued exchange rate that brings huge economic advantages. The converse effect is seen in Southern Europe whose economies pick up the tab for German economic success.

GT49er · Feb 19, 2017

Herr Tubthumper said:
Yet Germany has managed all this including absorbing an entire nation into the Republik whilst being in the EU. Makes you wonder doesn't?

All going nicely over there, is it? Thousands of immigrants settling in nicely, all warmly welcomed by the resident population? Merkel still everybody's favourite, getting rave reviews in all the ratings?

Thought so!

nicko31 · Feb 19, 2017

Herr Tubthumper said:
All the while high-skilled jobs are created by large corporations no. The government needs to create and encourage medium sized privately owned business; these typically stay local and employ local. This is what you need https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mittelstand

Would help if they laid off business rates, some killer increases coming. Meanwhile posh Independent Schools pay zero, only in Britain

Herr Tubthumper · Feb 19, 2017

GT49er said:
All going nicely over there, is it?

On balance a definite big yes I'd say.

GT49er · Feb 19, 2017

Herr Tubthumper said:
On balance a definite big yes I'd say.

OK, fair enough. You're welcome to stay in the EU then. We'll go for out.

cunning fergus · Feb 19, 2017

GT49er said:
Precisely. The UK government, not the EU. That's a good reason, and why many of us voted to leave.

Yes, neglect because successive governments were too concerned with 'Being at the Top Table' in Europe, exercising power and influence in EU policy making and generally 'Being at the Heart of Europe' (in all of which they largely fell short of their objectives) while all the while ignoring what was going on back home, right under their feet (but outside the M25 to a large extent too!)

Which doesn't seem to have cut much ice in the areas that voted for Brexit. Perhaps the investment was poorly targeted, or mismanaged, or just didn't trickle down past the people who got first dibs in the trough. Anyway, that's an economic argument, and one thing everyone should have learned from Brexit is that using economic arguments was a loser.

I would argue that the reason that the reason it didn't cut much ice is that people understand that the money used by the EU to invest in the UK is essentially UK taxpayers money.

The UK taxpayer is getting a raw deal on investment because (drum roll) we get less back than we pay in.

It is impossible to put such an arrangement positively.........and we shouldn't be grateful for what little we get back either.........frankly it's a disgrace that any UK Government should just give its taxpayers money over to another country whilst the UK needs it.

End of.

Deleted member 22389 · Feb 19, 2017

cunning fergus said:
I would argue that the reason that the reason it didn't cut much ice is that people understand that the money used by the EU to invest in the UK is essentially UK taxpayers money.

The UK taxpayer is getting a raw deal on investment because (drum roll) we get less back than we pay in.

It is impossible to put such an arrangement positively.........and we shouldn't be grateful for what little we get back either.........frankly it's a disgrace that any UK Government should just give its taxpayers money over to another country whilst the UK needs it.

End of.

Lots of our money goes to pay for the extortionate wages of the MEPs, Expenses, Pensions and other crap.
It does take the piss, here being one example, old article I know. http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/campaign-highlights-kinnocks-10m-eu-2100178

Sooner we officially divorce the EU the better. We will eventually have to stop paying for things like this in the future.

Deleted member 22389 · Feb 19, 2017

Neville's Breakfast said:
Germany benefits from being in a currency area that does not price in its economic activity into its exchange rate. It is a perpetually devalued exchange rate that brings huge economic advantages. The converse effect is seen in Southern Europe whose economies pick up the tab for German economic success.

Definately a massive downturn in living standards for those in Southern Italy. My relatives used to have a very good standard of living before the Euro was introduced. Once the Euro was introduced things slowly started changing, but it was the 2008 crash that finished Southern Italy off, coupled with the migration issues.

My cousin works in the tourism industry, wages have been driven down, lose your job now it is very hard to pick up and get another one, plus their is too much competition for jobs because of migration.

Deleted member 22389 · Feb 19, 2017

Herr Tubthumper said:
On balance a definite big yes I'd say.

As much as I respect the Germans for their manufacturing, what I don't respect is the feeling they are controlling the EU and telling everyone else what to do. Why does it feel like Merkel speaks for the EU these days.

Soulman · Feb 19, 2017

bashlsdir said:
As much as I respect the Germans for their manufacturing, what I don't respect is the feeling they are controlling the EU and telling everyone else what to do. Why does it feel like Merkel speaks for the EU these days.

Ditto.

JC Footy Genius · Feb 19, 2017

GT49er said:
All going nicely over there, is it? Thousands of immigrants settling in nicely, all warmly welcomed by the resident population? Merkel still everybody's favourite, getting rave reviews in all the ratings?

Thought so!

It took HT nearly two years to realise voting in Corbyn was a mistake which suggests his political radar is in need of a service. Hope it doesn't need the sound of breaking glass or torch like processions going by his window before he realises there may be a looming problem ..

Javeaseagull · Feb 19, 2017

Found this on Twitter

doesn't work sorry trying to delete

Herr Tubthumper · Feb 19, 2017

JC Footy Genius said:
It took HT nearly two years to realise voting in Corbyn was a mistake which suggests his political radar is in need of a service. Hope it doesn't need the sound of breaking glass or torch like processions going by his window before he realises there may be a looming problem ..

I don't live in Lewes.

Herr Tubthumper · Feb 19, 2017

cunning fergus said:
I would argue that the reason that the reason it didn't cut much ice is that people understand that the money used by the EU to invest in the UK is essentially UK taxpayers money.

The UK taxpayer is getting a raw deal on investment because (drum roll) we get less back than we pay in.

It is impossible to put such an arrangement positively.........and we shouldn't be grateful for what little we get back either.........frankly it's a disgrace that any UK Government should just give its taxpayers money over to another country whilst the UK needs it.

End of.

And if you think a Tory government, or a Labour government for that matter, will reinvest the money in deprived UK areas then you're utterly deluded (as well as a bit unstable).

GT49er · Feb 19, 2017

Herr Tubthumper said:
And if you think a Tory government, or a Labour government for that matter, will reinvest the money in deprived UK areas then you're utterly deluded (as well as a bit unstable).

At least we'll only have to deal with Tory (or Labour) snouts in the troughs then, not all the EU snouts in the trough as well. We'll be able to vote them out too, every five years if they don't deliver.

Lincoln Imp · Feb 19, 2017

GT49er said:
At least we'll only have to deal with Tory (or Labour) snouts in the troughs then, not all the EU snouts in the trough as well. We'll be able to vote them out too, every five years if they don't deliver.

...using a bent voting system maintained by the two big parties so that they can divvy out control between themseles in perpetuity. Sounds perfect.

Lincoln Imp · Feb 19, 2017

cunning fergus said:
Nope, I think have read you correctly, you clearly stated that as Barnsley is 96.5% white then immigration was not an issue for their high leave vote for Brexit.
.

No, you haven't read me correctly. I actually find it tedious to attempt to have a dialogue with someone who does little else than quote back small elements, out of context, whilst launching into shouty jeers. You may call it 'robust debate', I call it 'very boring'. If you will excuse me I now have some interesting people to talk with. You have a nice evening.

cunning fergus · Feb 19, 2017

Herr Tubthumper said:
And if you think a Tory government, or a Labour government for that matter, will reinvest the money in deprived UK areas then you're utterly deluded (as well as a bit unstable).

If that is the justification for handing over billions of pounds of UK taxpayers money to an unelected organisation so they can skim some off some for their benefit before handing it over to a foreign country then we are well out of it.

To think this racket lasted 44 years..........

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