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Same old Tories - completely out of touch



B

BLOCK F

Well-known member
Feb 26, 2009
6,343
Perkino said:
The problem is, and always has been, money. Young adults don't know how to handle it or use it responsibly. Many 18-25 year olds end up in debt, normally several thousands.

As a 28 year old teacher I earnt around £30k a year and I tried to purchase a property for £210,000. The highest mortgage I could find was for £155,000 so I needed a deposit of £55,000.

Very few individuals aged 28 have more than a few thousand of savings so getting the first house is near impossible.

My mortgage repayments are £681 a month compared to the £1,200 a month my friend pays for his rented home of similar size less than a mile away.

The rental market is crippling and even though this friend earns more than £40,000 pa he will never manage to save up a deposit in fact he is still working on paying off his debts. Until renting becomes significantly cheaper then the hard working members of society will remain poor
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I have bored my wife silly by banging on over the years that the obsession with rising house prices in this country will end in tears.
I am of the age when buying a modest first house was a pretty attainable aspiration for many people, even those of fairly modest means. It has now become almost impossible for many young people.
It appears to me, that a lot of the political ya-booing on NSC, may be more of a generational thing rather than strictly political( except amongst our extremist brethren!). A lot of younger people feel hard done by and blame the Government of the day. If only it was that simple.
It is one hell of a task to reverse the position we are in regarding housing. An unenviable task for whoever is in power, but one that could go along way to making for a more harmonious society.
 






beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,300
excellent Thick of it Style photo there :lolol:
 


drew

drew

Drew
Oct 3, 2006
23,048
Burgess Hill
GT49er said:
And, if I remember the election results correctly, the electorate didn't go for it and Labour very sensibly kicked the idea into touch.
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Why was it sensible to kick it into touch? Surely there is nothing inherently wrong with right to buy, just the manner in which the tories implemented it. Reinvest the income in more housing and also don't offer such a massive discount. For every house sold you should be able to build another.
 


Perkino

Perkino

Well-known member
Dec 11, 2009
5,986
BLOCK F said:
I have bored my wife silly by banging on over the years that the obsession with rising house prices in this country will end in tears.
I am of the age when buying a modest first house was a pretty attainable aspiration for many people, even those of fairly modest means. It has now become almost impossible for many young people.
It appears to me, that a lot of the political ya-booing on NSC, may be more of a generational thing rather than strictly political( except amongst our extremist brethren!). A lot of younger people feel hard done by and blame the Government of the day. If only it was that simple.
It is one hell of a task to reverse the position we are in regarding housing. An unenviable task for whoever is in power, but one that could go along way to making for a more harmonious society.
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I don't get how it can cost more to rent a house than to buy one for yourself. All that money is going to some greedy landlord who after all those years of collecting rent then sells the property for significantly more than he bought it for.

The whole market is then fuelled by hard working individuals who could easily afford the mortgage repayments but cannot get an offer as they don't have £40,000 deposit
 




M

Mo Gosfield

Well-known member
Aug 11, 2010
6,284
The same old tired rhetoric from the same old tired parties. Long since past their sell by dates and with nothing new to offer. We deserve better than this ghastly ragbag of political parties that fail to represent our interests repeatedly and a stream of career-minded civil servants that have about as much appeal as cold puke. They are self-interested and uninteresting.
Please, dear God, tell me we don't have to put up with this garbage for years to come. Anyone getting excited about Conservative, Labour or Liberal needs to seek help.
 


H

Hastings gull

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2013
4,635
Wardy's twin said:
Can someone tell me what an 'ordinary working class person is'? All the debates and especially new labour under Corbyn seem to use this term and I fail to see how it can be useful to the debate.The real argument surely is about establishing a minimum base level for all (equal education opportunity , affordable housing, free healthcare, minimum wages) which are sustainable. The last point is key you cannot just throw money at the problem if you don't have it. So along with this social commitment (equal education opportunity , affordable housing, free healthcare, minimum wages) must come individual commitment to society i.e. it is not free you pay into the pot and you take from the pot, so you contribute to society or your are not part of it and don't benefit from it. However too many people a) think there is a bottomless pit of money b) they are entitled to it without making a contribution.
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Absolutely. Barely a day goes by without some organisation demanding more financial resources or individuals bleating on about their hard luck, always omitting to say how they got there in the first place. Expectation has risen so much and seems to be increasing. There is nothing wrong with high hopes of course, but with it must come with some sense of responsibility, but all too often we just read and hear demands for ever more money, with as ever very little consideration given as to how it can be generated and afforded.
 






J

janee

Fur half
Oct 19, 2008
709
Lentil land
Please
Buzzer said:
As someone who works in social housing I agree with this completely. As part of my job, I do a little bit of voluntary work helping vulnerable residents with sorting out budgeting, giving them assistance when filling in forms and trying to ensure that they know their rights and responsibilities and all through the system, the people are scared. Would-be tenants desperate for the security of getting a housing association as a landlord as opposed to going private and paying over the odds for substandard accommodation, being exploited by managing agent and landlord alike.

And a lot of our existing tenants worried that there might be a change in the law that means that if they are deemed to earn too much then they will have to go private. We've already seen the bedroom tax rear its ugly head, it really isn't beyond the realms of possibility for some bright spark to suggest means-testing as a way of trying to fix this problem.

I say this as a dyed-in-the wool Tory, the right-to-buy a council house has been disastrous, shameful even and has cost us as taxpayers so much more than if it had never been allowed. Quite honestly, I think anyone who has exercised their right to buy should pay a specific surcharge on profit they made from selling the house and this money be ring-fenced for spending only on building or buying more social housing.
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Am cheered and slightly shocked by the insight that working on the coal face has given you. I too work in social housing and am a left winger. I wonder if I become a city banker, whether this would change me?
 


GT49er

GT49er

Well-known member
Feb 1, 2009
46,716
Gloucester
Superphil said:
Genuine question, in What way did the electorate 'not go for it' ? And how did that influence a government policy? They didn't have a referendum, didn't have a yougov poll or an online petition.
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The electorate voted conservative, who didn't at that time have flogging off the family silver - sorry, flogging off the council housing stock - as a policy in their manifesto.
 


Thunder Bolt

Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
Aug 18, 2009
65,439
Beside the seaside, beside the sea
Perkino said:
The problem is, and always has been, money. Young adults don't know how to handle it or use it responsibly. Many 18-25 year olds end up in debt, normally several thousands.

As a 28 year old teacher I earnt around £30k a year and I tried to purchase a property for £210,000. The highest mortgage I could find was for £155,000 so I needed a deposit of £55,000.

Very few individuals aged 28 have more than a few thousand of savings so getting the first house is near impossible.

My mortgage repayments are £681 a month compared to the £1,200 a month my friend pays for his rented home of similar size less than a mile away.

The rental market is crippling and even though this friend earns more than £40,000 pa he will never manage to save up a deposit in fact he is still working on paying off his debts. Until renting becomes significantly cheaper then the hard working members of society will remain poor
Click to expand...

It was always difficult to find a deposit although in the SE, it's almost impossible now. It's one of the reasons I went up north when I was first married as it was easier to buy houses up there.

This will sound like a naive question, but why don't governments cap rents? It's greedy landlords who are causing a lot of problems.
 




H

Hastings gull

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2013
4,635
GT49er said:
100% yes. He was Thatcher's greatest ally in losing the miners' strike. If he'd allowed secret ballots instead of pithead show of hands, the midlands mines would have almost certainly come out on strike too. Total support for the strike, 100% united front, total solidarity, no flying pickets, different result.

I wouldn't be surprised if he and Thatcher got together and had a good laugh about it afterwards. Funny how he didn't finish up as impoverished as most of his members, isn't it?
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Long time ago now, but I thought that he faced rebellion because he took votes from the northern mines to strike and then used that as a pretext for a national strike. Not sure, if this is true, that he would have had support from miners in other areas, given their suspicions as to his motives. But, as I say, long time ago, and I may have this wrong, but am sure that he bent his own union's rules.
Liked your last sentence -yes, yet another hypocrite who wanted socialism for everybody else . .Still have this image of him being arrested for obstruction, and appearing with the miners without his customary tie on, as he thought he had better look more like the plebs. .
 




LlcoolJ

LlcoolJ

Mama said knock you out.
Oct 14, 2009
12,982
Sheffield
Thunder Bolt said:
It was always difficult to find a deposit although in the SE, it's almost impossible now. It's one of the reasons I went up north when I was first married as it was easier to buy houses up there.

This will sound like a naive question, but why don't governments cap rents? It's greedy landlords who are causing a lot of problems.
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Goes against free market economics and supply and demand. Which is working really well, obviously.

Rents in London and the SE are insane. The rent vs mortgage repayment gap in other areas isn't anywhere near as big. Plus with much lower house prices the chance to get on the ladder is much greater.

It really is two different countries these days.
 




Tom Bombadil

Tom Bombadil

Well-known member
Jul 14, 2003
6,032
Jibrovia
Thunder Bolt said:
It was always difficult to find a deposit although in the SE, it's almost impossible now. It's one of the reasons I went up north when I was first married as it was easier to buy houses up there.

This will sound like a naive question, but why don't governments cap rents? It's greedy landlords who are causing a lot of problems.
Click to expand...

Actually greedy landlords are a symptom of the problem, which is under supply in the housing market. The real solution is to build more houses and ensure they are lived in by residents of the UK and not sold as investment opportunities in the far east.
 
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Thunder Bolt

Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
Aug 18, 2009
65,439
Beside the seaside, beside the sea
LlcoolJ said:
Goes against free market economics and supply and demand. Which is working really well, obviously.

Rents in London and the SE are insane. The rent vs mortgage repayment gap in other areas isn't anywhere near as big. Plus with much lower house prices the chance to get on the ladder is much greater.

It really is two different countries these days.
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That was my point in my first paragraph. It always was. Houses down here were double the price in 1970.
 


Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,487
The Fatherland


Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,487
The Fatherland
El Presidente said:
On the plus side, Jeremy Hunt has said the government is going to train more doctors, which is something I've been banging on about for years.
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How are they going to encourage this then?
 






Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,487
The Fatherland
Wardy's twin said:
However too many people a) think there is a bottomless pit of money b) they are entitled to it without making a contribution.
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Says who? Where did this ridiculous generalisation come from?
 


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