Have given up trying to get good or drink in 1901

Neville's Breakfast · Aug 10, 2016

Icy Gull said:
Perhaps ex players don't make the best PR men? Again just a thought.

Receiving complaints from irate members of the public is a skill in itself as club employees would not be allowed to answer back. I really don't think it right to make a judgement on someone's competence in their job without at least being armed with the full facts. I think it would be a fair assumption to make that the fan accosted Paul rather than the other way around. Re your point, actually I disagree as having Paul and others involved is a privilege (for us).

Icy Gull · Aug 10, 2016

Neville's Breakfast said:
Receiving complaints from irate members of the public is a skill in itself as club employees would not be allowed to answer back. I really don't think it right to make a judgement on someone's competence in their job without at least being armed with the full facts. I think it would be a fair assumption to make that the fan accosted Paul rather than the other way around. Re your point, actually I disagree as having Paul and others involved is a privilege (for us).

Neither of us are armed with the full facts though. The punter could have been being a dick but then again P Rogers could have been being difficult with the punter. Of course Paul Rogers wouldn't have accosted the punter but the way he responded or any lack of interest he MIGHT have shown could have made the punter irate.

Anyway my point is that because he was a playing legend doesn't necessarily make him good at PR. I am not suggesting he isn't btw as I have not had first hand experience although I have had a couple of people tell me that they were not that impressed by him.

albion534 · Aug 10, 2016

Icy Gull said:
Perhaps ex players don't make the best PR men and being good at PR is exactly what they should be if they are working in 1901. I have no idea if Paul Rogers is but I have often seen him in 1901 and he seems to choose to keep a very low profile

Or are you saying that as an ex playing legend he shouldn't, have to deal with pissed off punters? What should be be doing then?

Having dealt with Dodge several times over the years. I can assure you he is very capable at doing his job. Sometimes. People just cannot be told anything. Whether right or wrong.
Not suggesting the customer was in the wrong or not. But having dealt with irate customers in the past. Once people have an idea in their head. There's no changing their opinion

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Tom Hark Preston Park · Aug 10, 2016

Icy Gull said:
Perhaps ex players don't make the best PR men and being good at PR is exactly what they should be if they are working in 1901. I have no idea if Paul Rogers is but I have often seen him in 1901 and he seems to choose to keep a very low profile

Paul Rogers has been a class act both on and off the field. Always went the extra mile for our small band of Albion faithful when we were shirt sponsors during the Withdean years. Top bloke!

Giraffe · Aug 10, 2016

I would reiterate that Paul Rogers is excellent to deal with. I have dealt with him over several issues in 1901 over the years and he is great. The problem is he is let down by others, or at least the set up of 1901 in the first place.

It was set up as a corporate set up, but because the price was frankly too low from the outset, and they sold the 1901 seats first, the uptake from genuine fans was about 95%, leading to the whole "corporate" tier being full of fans, plus a few corporates. For a lot of these fans they just wanted a premier season ticket, the best view in the stadium, and in some cases the ability to park nearby, a bit of food, and a few extra perks.

Paul Barber has come in and quite rightfully realised that the price was too little and the cost too high. I am sure that the 1901 club membership is very very different to other equivalents at other clubs. I have little experience of others, but at Southampton it is a lot more corporate than fans, albeit a lot of people attending are fans, but it has a more corporate feeling (although Saints shirts ARE allowed!).

So put yourself in the shoes of a 1901 member. Sold a premier seat, with lots of benefits at a reasonable (or at least affordable) cost. They have enjoyed this for five years. Come renewal the prices go up and at the same time some benefits are removed, not all but some, and during the five years there have been various issues with food, catering etc.

At the start of the season the first under the new five year agreement they then don't receive their tickets for the first game, are told that having already renewed an additional benefit of the free half time tea/coffee was being removed, and if you previously had a car parking pass you now had to reapply for it, fill a form and get everyone sharing that car park place to sign for it and then return. Meanwhile when you finally receive the tickets they are presented in a great big box which in many case meant it wasn't delivered but went to the post office, but is a total waste of money, when supposedly they can't even afford a bit of frankly very cheap tea and coffee.

I understand that the original deal on the car parking was if there was 4 of you you got a pass, or 2 of you in platinum. If you all live at the same address you would have got your pass automatically. If, as most don't, you don't live together, then you have to reapply. What we don't yet know is whether we will honour all of the agreements previously made. In short they have no record of these, so you have to reapply for you to know whether you get a parking pass!

Whichever way you look at least this is pretty shambolic, and I can see why Paul Rogers would therefore have a few questions from punters last night> Don't forget a large % of our fanbase does not go on NSC every day, so may have been in the dark about these issues until they arrived last night and tried to use their pass from last season, having already been refused entry at a car park. They would then have to go to the ticket office and get a new ticket. Thank goodness the game was poorly attended. Had the Forest game been the first game when this was unfolding I suspect there would have been even greater issues.

But to reiterate this is part of Paul Rogers job and he deals with members fantastically well where he needs to. But fundamentally there is a major difference between what members want and expect from 1901 and what the club are now willing to provide.

Paul Barber is also very single minded in what he is trying to achieve. If he has to cut costs, the whole club has to cut costs, including 1901. The sad thing is there was probably more scope for cutting cost here as frankly it was poorly set up in the first place, far too many hosts, too many staff, poor catering, a bit of a shambles. But now it is less staff, equally poor catering, high bar prices, no free tea coffee, and a big cock up on sending tickets.

If i was Paul Barber, I would reinstate the tea coffee immediately, just to end the disquiet straight away and get people into the lounges. Last night was hard to judge as only a couple of lounges were open, but given there were less people there more people than normal stayed in their seats at half time and I saw flasks etc. That means people are not visiting the lounges for tea/coffee at half time as they would have done previously and therefore the occasional additional purchase by them is not happening. That cannot make sense for the club.

I am told that significant improvements have been made to the lounges. I have not noticed any yet.

hans kraay fan club · Aug 10, 2016

Dodge does his job pretty well in my experience - and its not always an easy one.

I saw him last night, at half time in the (used to be called the..) BUPA lounge. He looked a LITTLE stressed, but as ever still had time for a genuine smile and a hello. Top man.

Super Steve Earle · Aug 10, 2016

Speaking as a, regrettably former, Friend of The Albion, I would reiterate that Paul is an excellent Ambassador for the Club. Personable and friendly, I would tend to take his side rather than that of an irate fan, whatever the reason. His match days are busy and he may genuinely not have had the time to debate the issue when accosted.

Neville's Breakfast · Aug 10, 2016

Giraffe said:
I would reiterate that Paul Rogers is excellent to deal with. I have dealt with him over several issues in 1901 over the years and he is great. The problem is he is let down by others, or at least the set up of 1901 in the first place.

It was set up as a corporate set up, but because the price was frankly too low from the outset, and they sold the 1901 seats first, the uptake from genuine fans was about 95%, leading to the whole "corporate" tier being full of fans, plus a few corporates. For a lot of these fans they just wanted a premier season ticket, the best view in the stadium, and in some cases the ability to park nearby, a bit of food, and a few extra perks.

Paul Barber has come in and quite rightfully realised that the price was too little and the cost too high. I am sure that the 1901 club membership is very very different to other equivalents at other clubs. I have little experience of others, but at Southampton it is a lot more corporate than fans, albeit a lot of people attending are fans, but it has a more corporate feeling (although Saints shirts ARE allowed!).

So put yourself in the shoes of a 1901 member. Sold a premier seat, with lots of benefits at a reasonable (or at least affordable) cost. They have enjoyed this for five years. Come renewal the prices go up and at the same time some benefits are removed, not all but some, and during the five years there have been various issues with food, catering etc.

At the start of the season the first under the new five year agreement they then don't receive their tickets for the first game, are told that having already renewed an additional benefit of the free half time tea/coffee was being removed, and if you previously had a car parking pass you now had to reapply for it, fill a form and get everyone sharing that car park place to sign for it and then return. Meanwhile when you finally receive the tickets they are presented in a great big box which in many case meant it wasn't delivered but went to the post office, but is a total waste of money, when supposedly they can't even afford a bit of frankly very cheap tea and coffee.

I understand that the original deal on the car parking was if there was 4 of you you got a pass, or 2 of you in platinum. If you all live at the same address you would have got your pass automatically. If, as most don't, you don't live together, then you have to reapply. What we don't yet know is whether we will honour all of the agreements previously made. In short they have no record of these, so you have to reapply for you to know whether you get a parking pass!

Whichever way you look at least this is pretty shambolic, and I can see why Paul Rogers would therefore have a few questions from punters last night> Don't forget a large % of our fanbase does not go on NSC every day, so may have been in the dark about these issues until they arrived last night and tried to use their pass from last season, having already been refused entry at a car park. They would then have to go to the ticket office and get a new ticket. Thank goodness the game was poorly attended. Had the Forest game been the first game when this was unfolding I suspect there would have been even greater issues.

But to reiterate this is part of Paul Rogers job and he deals with members fantastically well where he needs to. But fundamentally there is a major difference between what members want and expect from 1901 and what the club are now willing to provide.

Paul Barber is also very single minded in what he is trying to achieve. If he has to cut costs, the whole club has to cut costs, including 1901. The sad thing is there was probably more scope for cutting cost here as frankly it was poorly set up in the first place, far too many hosts, too many staff, poor catering, a bit of a shambles. But now it is less staff, equally poor catering, high bar prices, no free tea coffee, and a big cock up on sending tickets.

If i was Paul Barber, I would reinstate the tea coffee immediately, just to end the disquiet straight away and get people into the lounges. Last night was hard to judge as only a couple of lounges were open, but given there were less people there more people than normal stayed in their seats at half time and I saw flasks etc. That means people are not visiting the lounges for tea/coffee at half time as they would have done previously and therefore the occasional additional purchase by them is not happening. That cannot make sense for the club.

I am told that significant improvements have been made to the lounges. I have not noticed any yet.

but haven't you answered your own point Giraffe ? 1901 membership in its first five years was very good value for money. I certainly found it so on my one and only visit. The club honoured this deal for the five year term. Now, by withdrawing some minor benefits it feels slightly less value for money and there have been some minor logistical problems. Despite this there has been huge take up of membership once again.Seems like a storm in a teacup (sorry !) compared with the fantastic all round experience of supporting the Albion these days. Remember who is actually paying for all this (Tony)....

Herr Tubthumper · Aug 10, 2016

Cowfold Seagull said:
Agree. In fact I witnessed a very public spat between who I assumed was a disgruntled 1901'r and Paul Rogers in front of the ticket office before the game last night, over 'something that had been taken away and no longer applied', whatever that meant.

The Tea Movement in effect!

Dick Swiveller · Aug 10, 2016

Giraffe said:
I would reiterate that Paul Rogers is excellent to deal with. I have dealt with him over several issues in 1901 over the years and he is great. The problem is he is let down by others, or at least the set up of 1901 in the first place.

It was set up as a corporate set up, but because the price was frankly too low from the outset, and they sold the 1901 seats first, the uptake from genuine fans was about 95%, leading to the whole "corporate" tier being full of fans, plus a few corporates. For a lot of these fans they just wanted a premier season ticket, the best view in the stadium, and in some cases the ability to park nearby, a bit of food, and a few extra perks.

The thing is, there are current some 1901 seats available. There isn't a mass clamour from corporates for the seats that us actual fans are taking up. Obviously that will change if we get to the PL but with that not happening, they need us. But they can't seem to decide whether to treat us as fans or corporates and seem to veer between the two from decision to decision. The new restaurant would appear to be a corporate move. Removing hot drinks and blaming losses seems to be a fan move. Sending out new tickets in fancy boxes because you might get complaints if you sent them in brown envelopes despite the cost is obviously back to corporate again.

Dick Swiveller · Aug 10, 2016

Neville's Breakfast said:
but haven't you answered your own point Giraffe ? 1901 membership in its first five years was very good value for money. I certainly found it so on my one and only visit. The club honoured this deal for the five year term. Now, by withdrawing some minor benefits it feels slightly less value for money and there have been some minor logistical problems. Despite this there has been huge take up of membership once again.Seems like a storm in a teacup (sorry !) compared with the fantastic all round experience of supporting the Albion these days. Remember who is actually paying for all this (Tony)....

Thanks Mr Barber. The prime complaint is that things are being slipped in after renewal that clearly could have been and should have been included in full disclosure when asking people to recommit. Much as people want to paint this as prawn sandwich munchers moaning about a cup of tea, it is actually a group of long term fans feeling slightly mugged off after committing to give the club well over £6000.

Herr Tubthumper · Aug 10, 2016

hans kraay fan club said:
Dodge does his job pretty well in my experience - and its not always an easy one.

I saw him last night, at half time in the (used to be called the..) BUPA lounge. He looked a LITTLE stressed, but as ever still had time for a genuine smile and a hello. Top man.

I'd agree with this. Can't comment on the specific incident detailed in this thread but with me he's always been super professional. He's great at his, difficult, job.

Neville's Breakfast · Aug 10, 2016

Dick Swiveller said:
Thanks Mr Barber. The prime complaint is that things are being slipped in after renewal that clearly could have been and should have been included in full disclosure when asking people to recommit. Much as people want to paint this as prawn sandwich munchers moaning about a cup of tea, it is actually a group of long term fans feeling slightly mugged off after committing to give the club well over £6000.

that's the second time I've been accused of being our glorious leader Mr Barber

Giraffe · Aug 10, 2016

Neville's Breakfast said:
but haven't you answered your own point Giraffe ? 1901 membership in its first five years was very good value for money. I certainly found it so on my one and only visit. The club honoured this deal for the five year term. Now, by withdrawing some minor benefits it feels slightly less value for money and there have been some minor logistical problems. Despite this there has been huge take up of membership once again.Seems like a storm in a teacup (sorry !) compared with the fantastic all round experience of supporting the Albion these days. Remember who is actually paying for all this (Tony)....

The point that I failed to mention is that by selling the 1901 seats to genuine fans, mostly to Withdean season ticket holders, so long term fans, they have effectively trapped the fan now. The limited availibility of season tickets elsewhere in the stadium means that if you left 1901 you would be sat in a very inferior seat somewhere. Had that not been the case and there were good seats available in the West and East Lower and Upper then I am sure a lot of 1901 ers would have walked this time. If the club reaches a point in the future where success on the field does not come, and season ticket numbers fall I fully expect 1901 ers to move to other parts of the stadium as these seats become available.

But for now they have us trapped as the other options are not very good. That makes it feel as though they can remove benefits with no real loss for now as the options as genuine fans are limited. It's not like a normal business where we can take our trade elsewhere.

Tom Hark Preston Park · Aug 10, 2016

Dick Swiveller said:
The thing is, there are current some 1901 seats available. There isn't a mass clamour from corporates for the seats that us actual fans are taking up. Obviously that will change if we get to the PL but with that not happening, they need us. But they can't seem to decide whether to treat us as fans or corporates and seem to veer between the two from decision to decision. The new restaurant would appear to be a corporate move. Removing hot drinks and blaming losses seems to be a fan move. Sending out new tickets in fancy boxes because you might get complaints if you sent them in brown envelopes despite the cost is obviously back to corporate again.

To be fair to the club though, the 1901 thing is a five year cycle, and we're only just now into the second five year cycle. So they're still learning on the job. So you get daft stuff like presentation boxes sent out too late with bits missing that are too big to fit through people's letterboxes. Whereas with us in the cheap seats, it's a one year cycle so the club have had many more cycles to finely hone things. Not saying it's right by any means, but IMHO it's at least a bit understandable. Maybe the solution is not to tie people into five year deals?

Giraffe · Aug 10, 2016

Tom Hark said:
To be fair to the club though, the 1901 thing is a five year cycle, and we're only just now into the second five year cycle. So they're still learning on the job. So you get daft stuff like presentation boxes sent out too late with bits missing that are too big to fit through people's letterboxes. Whereas with us in the cheap seats, it's a one year cycle so the club have had many more cycles to finely hone things. Not saying it's right by any means, but IMHO it's at least a bit understandable. Maybe the solution is not to tie people into five year deals?

I actually think you are right. They need to treat to us like season ticket holders, like fans. They should treat it like a premium view season ticket and that should be it. They have already moved towards that in that the corporate food package has to be booked in one lounge and can be booked for anyone, albeit it is cheaper for members, so why not get rid of the notion of the 1901 club and just make us all season ticket holders? I am sure they looked at this as an option, but fear they only listen to the core group that they talk to rather than the other 90%.

Herr Tubthumper · Aug 10, 2016

Giraffe said:
The point that I failed to mention is that by selling the 1901 seats to genuine fans, mostly to Withdean season ticket holders, so long term fans, they have effectively trapped the fan now. The limited availibility of season tickets elsewhere in the stadium means that if you left 1901 you would be sat in a very inferior seat somewhere. Had that not been the case and there were good seats available in the West and East Lower and Upper then I am sure a lot of 1901 ers would have walked this time. If the club reaches a point in the future where success on the field does not come, and season ticket numbers fall I fully expect 1901 ers to move to other parts of the stadium as these seats become available.

But for now they have us trapped as the other options are not very good. That makes it feel as though they can remove benefits with no real loss for now as the options as genuine fans are limited. It's not like a normal business where we can take our trade elsewhere.

Going back to your point about selling 1901 as corporate, whilst the literature made reference to the term corporate, they were certainly selling them more as "premium", or club, seats when I had my (early) meeting/presentation with 1901.

As an aside, I was also told of numerous benefits which never materialised.

Neville's Breakfast · Aug 10, 2016

Giraffe said:
The point that I failed to mention is that by selling the 1901 seats to genuine fans, mostly to Withdean season ticket holders, so long term fans, they have effectively trapped the fan now. The limited availibility of season tickets elsewhere in the stadium means that if you left 1901 you would be sat in a very inferior seat somewhere. Had that not been the case and there were good seats available in the West and East Lower and Upper then I am sure a lot of 1901 ers would have walked this time. If the club reaches a point in the future where success on the field does not come, and season ticket numbers fall I fully expect 1901 ers to move to other parts of the stadium as these seats become available.

But for now they have us trapped as the other options are not very good. That makes it feel as though they can remove benefits with no real loss for now as the options as genuine fans are limited. It's not like a normal business where we can take our trade elsewhere.

That's a very valid point and is likely to make you sensitive to any perceived reduction in quality of your current experience. Perhaps there needs to be an organised forum between 1901 members and the club where these issues can be discussed. Its not in the club's interest to have unhappy customers. I just think it a shame that events have taken a bitter turn on the cusp of an extraordinarily exciting new season. Perhaps dialogue is the answer so it doesn't go the way of the RMT/Southern relationship...

Dick Swiveller · Aug 10, 2016

Neville's Breakfast said:
that's the second time I've been accused of being our glorious leader Mr Barber

Sorry - a bit tongue in cheek because the 'Tony losing money' argument is really starting to grate. We know all of that and this is reflected in the prices for everything in the stadium. And was accepted as the reason for change such as removal of friendlies and European games when renewal time came around. No-one is more grateful than me for the money he puts in. But don't use it as an excuse to take away things when you are wasting money elsewhere.

Dick Swiveller · Aug 10, 2016

Giraffe said:
The point that I failed to mention is that by selling the 1901 seats to genuine fans, mostly to Withdean season ticket holders, so long term fans, they have effectively trapped the fan now. The limited availibility of season tickets elsewhere in the stadium means that if you left 1901 you would be sat in a very inferior seat somewhere. Had that not been the case and there were good seats available in the West and East Lower and Upper then I am sure a lot of 1901 ers would have walked this time. If the club reaches a point in the future where success on the field does not come, and season ticket numbers fall I fully expect 1901 ers to move to other parts of the stadium as these seats become available.

But for now they have us trapped as the other options are not very good. That makes it feel as though they can remove benefits with no real loss for now as the options as genuine fans are limited. It's not like a normal business where we can take our trade elsewhere.

Add in the fact that I'm not sure we would be able to sell the seats even if we wanted to move as it is not at capacity. That was another selling point - give us £1000 for life (which turned into life of the stadium BTW and is probably a legal get out) and if you want to see your seat, there will be a portal to do this. Get to the PL and cash in type thing. Now, if you didn't renew the contract you would not get an equivalent seat and would likely lose your initial investment.

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