LamieRobertson
Not awoke
The problem is who?
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The Jeremy Corbyn thread
- Thread starter Simster
- Start date
The problem is who?
Sorrel
Well-known member
Also, the current Labour Party leadership are excellent at campaigning (indeed, I think it reasonable to suggest that this is what they actually want to do - rather more than the pragmatism required for governing). If they are level going into an election campaign I would expect them be able to improve their vote as campaigning and promising change from it is something they have much experience of.
It certainly worked at the last election, so it's maybe reasonable to think it would work at the next, whenever that was.
It certainly worked at the last election, so it's maybe reasonable to think it would work at the next, whenever that was.
crookie
Well-known member
Simple fact is that if Labour had anyone other than Corbyn as leader they'd be streets ahead. The U.N. Security council never agrees on anything as Russia/China will never approve action against a sovereign state. A miracle that the Libya intervention was waved through. I agree that Corbyn gets a bad press but he doesn't do himself any favours on foreign affairs. He comes across as totally naive.
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Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,299
its simple: he doesn't want any miltary intervention ever. he's a pacifist and will happily talk all day about resolution and finding a diplomatic solution, as long as it does not involve violence. that it may prevent or reduce other violence is irrelevent, there can be no aggression only appeasement.
larus
Well-known member
I have no problem with that. But he should have the courage to be honest. He’s just become what he said made out that he despised so much. That is another MP who is afraid to tell the truth. Like in the election campaign when he was quite happy to give the opinion that he would do something about tuition fees.
Why say I will only agree if there’s UN resolutions. Anyone with even a limited IQ can see that won’t happen in the majority of cases due to the need for unanimity. Guys a fvcking and it’s scary that so many seem to see him as a potential PM. This is the failings of the blinkered politics in this country - so many are blind to the reality (in both main parties).
I don’t think TM is a good PM, but it was a poisoned chalice (Brexit negotiations) that no one really wanted.
Dorset Seagull
Once Dolphin, Now Seagull
I have voted Tory most of my life because I lean towards capitalism more than socialism. In more recent years as I get older I have started to feel more inclined towards socialist ideals without losing my belief that capitalism is still the most realistic economic model. I have lost faith in the Tory party and would happily consider a party more left wing but would find it impossible to vote for a party led by Corbyn.
If they had a less left wing leader and somebody I could relate to then I might just consider voting for them. I suspect there are many more ex Tory voters out there that feel as I do. There is a vacuum in politics at the moment and I think it’s an opportunity that could be taken advantage of by Labour with a different leader. If that doesn’t happen then perhaps a new party will come to the fore and offer something for others who feel as I do
If they had a less left wing leader and somebody I could relate to then I might just consider voting for them. I suspect there are many more ex Tory voters out there that feel as I do. There is a vacuum in politics at the moment and I think it’s an opportunity that could be taken advantage of by Labour with a different leader. If that doesn’t happen then perhaps a new party will come to the fore and offer something for others who feel as I do
larus
Well-known member
I’m in the same boat. I’m a conservative, but I despise the abuse by big business. I also hate the ‘entitlement’ culture and the fact that a percentage of the population seem to think it’s OK to not work but get state handouts for years.
The welfare state is a safety net (IMO) to help those in hard times. I support it fully, and also to care for those who are unable to work (genuine cases). I support a well-funded NHS and education system, but I accept that those with money will be able to afford private which will be better.
Both parties are a shambles, but Labour scare me at the moment with Abbott as Shadow Home Secretary. She is thick but gets a shadow post. Just goes to show that Labour are still in turmoil and far from united.
Then people wonder why we had Brexit, Trump, AfD, Austria, Italy. Look around at the quality of politicians around the world. No one tells the truth and opposition will disagree with policies just because they’re in opposition.
crookie
Well-known member
What I find bizarre is the fact that JC seems to still see Russia as beyond any criticism as if it is still some communist/socialist utopia (Not that it ever was). Modern Russia is the worst example of robber baron capitalism that has been seen in recent times. Cronyism, corruption, criminal gangs, state assets stolen/sold for a pittance, massive amounts of wealth moved abroad, huge tax evasion by the rich.
seagulls4ever
New member
- Oct 2, 2003
- 4,338
These kind of incorrect statements have basically become the norm when it comes to Corbyn.
Corbyn backed the intervention which took place in East Timor, and he wanted the UN to intervene in Rwanda during the genocide. The article below argues a couple of others he may have made the case for as well.
This information is easily accessible via Google: https://evolvepolitics.com/yes-jere...-in-genocides-the-uk-refused-to-intervene-in/
It's clear that he doesn't often support military intervention, and you are of course free to make your own judgements based upon what he has and has not supported in the past, but please, let's stick to the facts.
Labour.
1. Trident/Nuclear deterrent.
2017 Corbyn refuses to confirm his personal commitment to Trident at the same time his own party manifesto says they would support it. He said if Labour won governance a defense review of nuclear weapons would take place at his demand. He, Corbyn, voted against renewal. If Labour came to power there would be a real danger of relinquishing that deterrent.
2. Immigration
Labour view on 'refugees'. Britain to take it's 'fair' share of 'refugees' but absolutely no definition regarding economic or genuine asylum seekers. Bearing in mind Labour really opened the immigrant floodgates to 'rub the right-wing noses in it' who could understand what the limits would be? Could they be trusted to control it now?
3. Nationalisation
Arguable whether potentially beneficial or counter-productive. Labour view was/is that shareholders be damned and they would receive nowhere near the current market value of their shares. (Compensation they called it) Some were saying they would get nothing at all. So nationalization by theft! Northern Rock doesn't come into it. Here Labour are talking about viable, profitable companies. That sounds like communism style state robbery!
4. Foreign Aid
One report in 2017 says Labour would increase that percentage, others that they would 'maintain' it, particularly on our 'obligations' to 'refugees'. AGAIN no distinction between economic or genuine asylum seekers! That leaves big questions and renders their 'Poilcy' too fluid. Labour also demand that all foreign aid be handed to left-wing grassroots groups to spend as they see fit.
5.
6.
7.
I'll leave it there as most Labour supporters will have already given up reading....
Bollocks to Labour! No core, no real policies and a complete shyster as a leader backed by marxist communist radicals and powerful union barons.
Vote Labour!
No bloody way.
1. Trident/Nuclear deterrent.
2017 Corbyn refuses to confirm his personal commitment to Trident at the same time his own party manifesto says they would support it. He said if Labour won governance a defense review of nuclear weapons would take place at his demand. He, Corbyn, voted against renewal. If Labour came to power there would be a real danger of relinquishing that deterrent.
2. Immigration
Labour view on 'refugees'. Britain to take it's 'fair' share of 'refugees' but absolutely no definition regarding economic or genuine asylum seekers. Bearing in mind Labour really opened the immigrant floodgates to 'rub the right-wing noses in it' who could understand what the limits would be? Could they be trusted to control it now?
3. Nationalisation
Arguable whether potentially beneficial or counter-productive. Labour view was/is that shareholders be damned and they would receive nowhere near the current market value of their shares. (Compensation they called it) Some were saying they would get nothing at all. So nationalization by theft! Northern Rock doesn't come into it. Here Labour are talking about viable, profitable companies. That sounds like communism style state robbery!
4. Foreign Aid
One report in 2017 says Labour would increase that percentage, others that they would 'maintain' it, particularly on our 'obligations' to 'refugees'. AGAIN no distinction between economic or genuine asylum seekers! That leaves big questions and renders their 'Poilcy' too fluid. Labour also demand that all foreign aid be handed to left-wing grassroots groups to spend as they see fit.
5.
6.
7.
I'll leave it there as most Labour supporters will have already given up reading....
Bollocks to Labour! No core, no real policies and a complete shyster as a leader backed by marxist communist radicals and powerful union barons.
Vote Labour!
No bloody way.
vegster
Sanity Clause
- May 5, 2008
- 27,892
Top quality rant. Obviously Mrs May and her millionaire Tory Cabinet are doing an excellent job...................of looking after themselves.
danish seagull
Active member
I live and work in Denmark but still back about 1/5 of the time.
And even taking it from a 'Danish only' perspective, having a wet blanket in charge of the UK is a worry.
alfredmizen
Banned
- Mar 11, 2015
- 6,342
You've admitted yourself , vegster, youre in a sh1t job and going nowhere ,those of us whove worked saved and built something , dont want to spunk it away on corbyns dubious schemes, i wont vote tory, but i could never vote labour with the likes of corbyn, mcdonnell and abbott in charge.
alfredmizen
Banned
- Mar 11, 2015
- 6,342
Agree with most of that post.
nicko31
Well-known member
Reminds me a lot of the early 80's the Thatcher right versus the Loony left. We desperately need a centre party for sane people to vote for, Lib Dems only answer for me. Have an LD MP one on my patch doing a great job with a real voice in parliament replacing a Tory yes woman career politician who lost the plot
Chief Wiggum
New member
- Apr 30, 2009
- 518
I agree, but the problem is that Labour is now a far left party, under far left control. The moderate, sensible, Labour leader you wish for will therefore not emerge in the current set up.
If the moderate Labour MP's such as John Woodcock, Kate Hoey and Frank Field were to form an alternative option then that is a party I may be interested in.
SDLP?
By moderate do you mean Brexiteer?
Dick Swiveller
Well-known member
- Sep 9, 2011
- 9,155
And a host of local MPs and Councillors who shafted this football club time and again. Lib Dems should get my vote every time but not sure I can ever vote for them again given how illiberal or undemocratic a lot of them seem to have been.
vegster
Sanity Clause
- May 5, 2008
- 27,892
Don't assume you are the only person who's worked hard for what they have achieved in life, there are millions in this country grafting in poorly paid work.
I'm well aware a Labour government won't suddenly create a decent well paid job for me. Corbyn's " dubious schemes " are not his alone, they have been put forward and supported by conference and the National Executive. If you feel that supporting the NHS and it's overworked and underpaid staff, or investing in the education system for our descendants is not for you, then fine.
I would like a country where everyone has a chance to buy a house and get a good education without being saddled with an almost impossible burden of debt. A country where people who have contributed to the country don't die abandoned in a hospital corridor..
No one's going to take your cash off you, you don't have to stuff your mattress with your hard earned cash, so sleep well well and enjoy the fruits of your labour but accept that others would want the same.