Two Professors
Two Mad Professors
Anybody seen Osborne recently?
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The Jeremy Corbyn thread
- Thread starter Simster
- Start date
yxee
Well-known member
The Labour party was between a rock and a hard place, a lot of their grassroots support will have voted Brexit. The party was too weak to risk betting on the wrong horse.
Ernest
Stupid IDIOT
Has he GONE yet?
No I'm STILL here
Stumpy Tim
Well-known member
Everyone should feel represented by politicians, including the working class and the middle class. I'm a middle class, home owning family person, and I certainly don't feel represented. Corbyn is way too left wing, the Tories have lurched to the right. In a way, the working class are more represented - either by the left-wing Corbynites or the right-wing UKIP. There is no party in the centre ground worth talking about. I'm a natural Social Democrat and there's no party that represents me now
1066familyman
Radio User
- Jan 15, 2008
- 15,185
Hang on a minute, you've had a 'New Labour' party for God knows how long, and the Lib Dems too.
We've had our Labour party back for 5 minutes (well, leader at least) but not had the chance to vote them in or out yet, and already, at the first acid test the leader has let us down. Sorry, you've got very little to complain about in comparison I feel.
Stumpy Tim
Well-known member
What's this you and I nonsense? Both of us deserve representation.
1066familyman
Radio User
- Jan 15, 2008
- 15,185
We do, I agree.
My point is you've had it for a long time, I haven't. You've been without it for five minutes and suddenly it's hand wringing time. Forgive me if I don't feel overly sympathetic about that at the moment.
Stumpy Tim
Well-known member
I would say I haven't had it since Blair left, though Brown was OK. So at best it's been six years without representation, and in reality nine years.
Blair had the trick of representing several groups, hence the number of clear election victories (and the margins of victory).
The UK lacks a truly purposeful centre party in my view. Clegg came so close to providing it, but sold his soul when it came to university funding. If he had told the Lib Dems to abstain in that vote he could have claimed the moral high ground and kept his party as a force. Now they're a shambles
I don't think that's the whole story: Blair also had a deeply divided Tory party, at each other's throats over Europe, and with a legacy of a government that had run out of steam. The Labour Party would probably have won in 1997 if it had been led by Jimmy Savile and Harold Shipman, the Tories were such a state. It's noticeable that Blair's vote went down in the two subsequent elections.
Corbyn will also be facing a deeply divided Tory party but he has several; factors against him, factors that Blair didn't have. He also presides over a divided party; he has a hostile press against him and he doesn't have the Lib Dems to serve as an option for non-Labour loving anti-Tories. He does, however, have an SNP hoovering up Labour votes in Scotland.
None of that is Corbyn's doing (maybe the divided party but he's a symptom of that rather than the cause).
I do agree though that if he's moving the party leftwards - and I think he's right to do so - there does need to be a more centrist alternative. Which is why I suggested earlier that the Blairites form a new party with the pro-EU Tories
Hampster Gull
New member
- Dec 22, 2010
- 13,462
Corbyn is an imbecile. Let the poor down massively here with his indecision. Will be remembered as one of the worst labour "leaders"
Buzzer
Languidly Clinical
- Oct 1, 2006
- 26,121
The beauty of the Labour Party set up is that you can have the best of both worlds with the leader and deputy leader roles. Blair and Prescott were the perfect combination to kick out the discredited Tories in 1997 one appealing to disaffected Tory voters and the other with a strong bond with traditional Labour support. If Labour are smart then they could do the same in the next few years in readiness for 2020 with Chuka Umunna and Dan Jarvis. Umunna was, in my opinion, excellent with his analysis of the referendum on BBC last night and he is just the man that could attract big support from traditional Tories who are furious with Boris Johnson for his duplicity and Cameron and Osborne for sheer incompetence. Jarvis is a coal-miner's son, ex-Para Major and left-leaning with his roots firmly in the Labour heartland in the North away from the London-centric Metropolitans. And he's a very clever, practical and affable.
I fear for the UK if Corbyn remains leader in the next election because he simply won't win and I don't mean any malice by that and I'd even stake my mortgage on it - even with the Tories in disarray or with a very right-wing leader. Labour need to win elections to be in a position to help the poor in this country. If Johnson, Gove or IDS are still pulling the strings after 2020 then the worst off in this country are truly f*cked. A Jarvis/Umunna double act would scare the Tories sh*tless.
Bladders
Twats everywhere
Umunna pulled out the last race very early as he couldn't take the pressure of the media glare.
Think he's no more than a follower rather than a true leader.
Buzzer
Languidly Clinical
- Oct 1, 2006
- 26,121
That could work in his favour. He can say that he's learnt from it, he wasn't ready then but is now. I personally think, having read a fair few commentators reports of the last leadership battle that his pulling out was nothing more than tactical. I think he chucked his hat in v early because he believed the hype surrounding his name at the time but after a few days' reflection concluded that he probably would not have beaten Burnham, the then lead candidate and also that Labour would also probably lose the next election.
Crispy Ambulance
Well-known member
Too many skeletons in his 'closet' mate!
Buzzer
Languidly Clinical
- Oct 1, 2006
- 26,121
Could work. The Tories had Ted Heath and William Hague as leaders and both of those have long held reputations of being puddle jumpers.
I thought you were a Tory Buzzer yet you talk of the worst off in this country. What's happening ?
Buzzer
Languidly Clinical
- Oct 1, 2006
- 26,121
The attack on disability benefits happened.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
Excellent point, easily forgotten. Arguably one of the most unlikely political partnerships you could imagine, but it worked, and Prescott stuck by him the whole time, even if secretly he seethed at some of the policy decisions.
Ernest
Stupid IDIOT
Not as bad as Blair though, lied to the country to take us into an illegal war is a lot worse than not backing something he didn't believe in