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Ken Livingstone Suspended



BadFish

BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
17,121
It seems to me that if you look at what was actually posted and actually said rather than adding extra inference that may or may not have been included then this is all a storm in a teacup. Shah has certainly been critical of Israel but most people with a decent amount of critical literacy can make the distinction between this and anti-semitism. To my mind based on the evidence i have seen this issue has almost certainly been run with by those with agendas.

If anyone thinks that this makes me anti-semitic or an apologist for those that are then so be it. You are wrong!


The original post from Finkelstein seems absurd and i am still waiting to see how seriously we are supposed to take it)

https://jamiesternweiner.wordpress.com/2016/04/29/ken-livingstone-gobshite-yes-antisemite-no/

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2016/...ti-semitic-image-naz-shah-retweeted-did-they/
 
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carlzeiss

carlzeiss

Well-known member
May 19, 2009
5,851
Amazonia
Buzzer said:
The easiest way would be to turn it around for a minute. Say that I thought that there's big issues between Muslims and people of a Judeo-Christian background in the UK. And say I thought that the problems are getting bigger and bigger with traditional communities being transplanted and exclusively Muslim communities replacing them. Say I fear Islamic rule in a country that I regard as my own and that I think Islam is incompatible with a liberal Western lifestyle. This is all hypothetical of course.

My hypothetical solution is to 'relocate' all Muslims out of Britain to Saudi Arabia. There's plenty of room in those deserts, the Saudis have plenty of money, they will be safe in a community that broadly shares their religious beliefs, the relocation costs could easily be met by not having to spend money on security risks from UK Muslims. And if they don't like Saudi Arabia, we can find somewhere else for them to live. Do you think this idea is no big deal? Do you think UK Muslims and their relatives overseas think it's no big deal?

Of course it bloody is. It's made all that much bigger because in living memory, millions of Jews have already been 'relocated' because they're a problem to some.
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Great idea , plenty of room in Saudi Arabia :thumbsup:
 


looney

looney

Banned
Jul 7, 2003
15,652
BadFish said:
It seems to me that if you look at what was actually posted and actually said rather than adding extra inference that may or may not have been included then this is all a storm in a teacup. Shah has certainly been critical of Israel but most people with a decent amount of critical literacy can make the distinction between this and anti-semitism. To my mind based on the evidence i have seen this issue has almost certainly been run with by those with agendas.

If anyone thinks that this makes me anti-semitic or an apologist for those that are then so be it. You are wrong!
Click to expand...

No, as per usual you dont know what you are talking about, contribute nothing but glib prejudices. Attacks on Jews are increasing, ant-ijewish retoric is increasing, including from MPs and public figures(Ken Livingstone). This is all a storm in a tea cup?
 




Westdene Seagull

Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patron
Oct 27, 2003
21,027
The arse end of Hangleton
Buzzer said:
The easiest way would be to turn it around for a minute. Say that I thought that there's big issues between Muslims and people of a Judeo-Christian background in the UK. And say I thought that the problems are getting bigger and bigger with traditional communities being transplanted and exclusively Muslim communities replacing them. Say I fear Islamic rule in a country that I regard as my own and that I think Islam is incompatible with a liberal Western lifestyle. This is all hypothetical of course.

My hypothetical solution is to 'relocate' all Muslims out of Britain to Saudi Arabia. There's plenty of room in those deserts, the Saudis have plenty of money, they will be safe in a community that broadly shares their religious beliefs, the relocation costs could easily be met by not having to spend money on security risks from UK Muslims. And if they don't like Saudi Arabia, we can find somewhere else for them to live. Do you think this idea is no big deal? Do you think UK Muslims and their relatives overseas think it's no big deal?

Of course it bloody is. It's made all that much bigger because in living memory, millions of Jews have already been 'relocated' because they're a problem to some.
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But that is exactly what Israel is doing, has done and was exactly what the League of Nations proposed to do with locals in what is now Israel ( albeit on a smaller scale ). So Israel can hardly get all upset if the suggestion of doing the other way round is brought forward. Note I use the word Israel, I don't NOT use the word Jew - just in case our ultra rich poster gets all whiny.
 
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Buzzer

Buzzer

Languidly Clinical
Oct 1, 2006
26,121
Westdene Seagull said:
But that is exactly what Israel is doing, has done and was exactly what the League of Nations proposed to do with locals in what is now Israel ( albeit on a smaller scale ). So Israel can hardly get all upset if the suggestion of doing the other way round is brought forward. Note I use the word Israel, I don't NOT use the word Jew - just in case our ultra rich poster gets all whiny.
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But two very bad wrongs don't make a right. Palestinians are rightly upset with the land grabs, I don't blame them and it's a big deal to them and to you, I see. So the idea that all Jews (and of course it would be Jewish Israelis - that's explicitly what the article refers to, it wouldn't make any sense otherwise) be moved off the continent - it would have to be forcibly, away from Jerusalem is offensive too. It's the kind of debate that just escalates tensions and creates further divisions. I think this article was intended to be offensive, it's hard to see how anyone could argue that it's not.
 


D

daveinprague

New member
Oct 1, 2009
12,572
Prague, Czech Republic
To be honest, I think the graphic was a light hearted scenario. The graphic was also dealing with the State of Israel, and not Jews., with the hope of peace all round. I still dont think Shah posting it and saying problem solved shows anti semitism, it shows anti Zionism to me as it refers to the State..
Anyway. I wont change anybodies mind, and its doubtful anybody will change mine.
Big football day now.
 






N

Neville's Breakfast

Well-known member
May 1, 2016
13,423
Oxton, Birkenhead
daveinprague said:
To be honest, I think the graphic was a light hearted scenario. The graphic was also dealing with the State of Israel, and not Jews., with the hope of peace all round. I still dont think Shah posting it and saying problem solved shows anti semitism, it shows anti Zionism to me as it refers to the State..
Anyway. I wont change anybodies mind, and its doubtful anybody will change mine.
Big football day now.
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what do you think of Naz' comment that 'the jews are rallying' ?
 




N

Neville's Breakfast

Well-known member
May 1, 2016
13,423
Oxton, Birkenhead
daveinprague said:
Stupid

But, I dont believe she is anti semitic.
The Bradford Synagogue rabbi is insistant that she isnt.
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Im inclined to agree with you that she wouldn't discriminate against Jewish people and anyway she has apologised which is to be respected. However, inflammatory language whether it be about Jews, Muslims or anybody else creates fear and is pretty far below the standards expected of an MP.
 




D

daveinprague

New member
Oct 1, 2009
12,572
Prague, Czech Republic
Neville's Breakfast said:
Im inclined to agree with you that she wouldn't discriminate against Jewish people and anyway she has apologised which is to be respected. However, inflammatory language whether it be about Jews, Muslims or anybody else creates fear and is pretty far below the standards expected of an MP.
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Yeah, but she wasnt an MP at the time, and a Palestinian activist. Its no excuse, but different circumstances I think.
 


N

Neville's Breakfast

Well-known member
May 1, 2016
13,423
Oxton, Birkenhead
daveinprague said:
Yeah, but she wasnt an MP at the time, and a Palestinian activist. Its no excuse, but different circumstances I think.
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No, she wasn't an MP at the time but she wrote that less than two years ago. The Labour party is in danger of losing the moral high ground on discrimination which is why the independent enquiry is a good idea as it may set some ground rules. Neither Naz nor Ken have been suspended for opposing Israeli Government policy. If they had I would be agreeing with you. Naz was suspended for inflammatory language and Ken for peddling conspiracy theories about the Haavara agreement. There is more to anti semitism than discriminating against your neighbour.
 










K

knocky1

Well-known member
Jan 20, 2010
12,971
I thought the Tories got lots of votes by being racist. Not sure about that working for Labour.
 


Buzzer

Buzzer

Languidly Clinical
Oct 1, 2006
26,121
knocky1 said:
I thought the Tories got lots of votes by being racist. Not sure about that working for Labour.
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The Tories get lots of votes from the Jewish electorate for not being anti-semitic. Not sure about that working for Labour.

statistic1.jpg


http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/157746/labour-support-among-british-jews-collapses-85-cent
 








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