Hillsborough verdict: Fans unlawfully killed

Nixonator · Apr 28, 2016

sydney said:
none apparently .....and to suggest otherwise will have you being called out all over the place as a knobhead.....apparently. i have a lot of scouse mates in perth , i have two mates who were at hillsboro that day.......the story they tell is contrary to what is being discussed here.......and no i'm not going to comment on this any more because people are going to start throwing their nappies around and it's gonna end up getting stupid.....the findings have been made....the door is now open for compensation claims to be made and settled and the families involved will have some sort of closure......end of.

Families finding closure and liable for compensation - win
Corruption of authories exposed and laid bear - win
One more step towards safe standing - win
Can go back to calling liverpool fans the scum of the ****ing planet without neutrals getting touchy about it - win

The Albion Roar · Apr 28, 2016

I'm not sure whether the number of ticketless fans was 'none'.

The issue is, the fans - ticketed or unticketed - were not deemed in any way culpable. To consider the ticketlessness of the fans is to consider something which wasn't a contributory factor to the disaster. So why do it?

nicko31 · Apr 28, 2016

The Albion Roar said:
I'm not sure whether the number of ticketless fans was 'none'.

The issue is, the fans - ticketed or unticketed - were not deemed in any way culpable. To consider the ticketlessness of the fans is to consider something which wasn't a contributory factor to the disaster. So why do it?

Find it difficult to believe no one turned up without a ticket, back then lots travelled without tickets and touts were commonplace in football grounds. Wasn't there evidence given by turnstile operators during the inquest that there were ticketless fans?

portlock seagull · Apr 28, 2016

nicko31 said:
Find it difficult to believe no one turned up without a ticket, back then lots travelled without tickets and touts were commonplace in football grounds. Wasn't there evidence given by turnstile operators during the inquest that there were ticketless fans?

But it's not a contributory factor. So why are you labouring this point? Are you going to point out lots of people wore red that day? Or had hair? Or had been drinking Sprite? Why are people still discussing this point in relation to the disaster? Unless of course you are still hanging onto prejudice as so many thousands to their shame appear to be doing in the wake of the verdict.

portlock seagull · Apr 28, 2016

Danny-Boy said:
I just wonder where a lot of people on here wwere during the 1980's, other than in their cradles.

Has anyone here not remembered that from Heysel onwards Liverpool fans were vilified for a televised riot during which a number of Juventus fans were themselves terrified by attacks into trampling each other to death?

The consequences of that were that ALL English teams were banned completely from Euro competition for about 5 years. Liverpool themselves were banned from re-entry until 1991/2 when (ironically for Palace) their second place in the league qualified them again for the old EUFA Cup ahead of Palace who had finished third that season, their highest placing ever.

I still remember the feeling of aggrievement from other English fans, notably Everton, who were thus forced to watch European football for season after season without being able to qualify for it. In 1989 there was I believe a clear sentiment that in some way Liverpool supporters had brought the tragic events at Hillsborough on themselves to some degree.

I listened to part of the Kelly Kates (nee Dalglish) documentary last night. Not ONCE did I hear the issue of Heysel brought up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heysel_Stadium_disaster#English_club_ban

Was that because the documentary was about HILLSBOROUGH? Jesus, is it too much to ask people focus on facts of the matter here without dragging in personal agendas and prejudices. Talk about small minded. Starting to lose my cool with idiots like you commenting post this triumph of people over the establishment. And still the sniping goes on. Basically because there are stupid people in this world. 'Twas ever thus I guess, honestly I can't begin to believe how the families coped and fought for decades in the face of millions believing what they wanted to due to their own petty prejudices. Shame on you for bringing Heysel into the equation. What the **** has that got to do with the 96 and their families seeking justice over the past TWENTY SEVEN years?

Ernest · Apr 28, 2016

I wonder when anger will be directed at the FA ? They were the ones who chose Hillsborough, a ground without a safety certificate and knowing there had been similar problems there in previous semi's so they have quite a lot to answer to

chaileyjem · Apr 28, 2016

Danny-Boy said:
I listened to part of the Kelly Kates (nee Dalglish) documentary last night. Not ONCE did I hear the issue of Heysel brought up.

10.00 in a discussion about 80s football fans. Kelly Cates to panel "Was this particularly true for Liverpool fans [the caricature of football fans as "scum and causing trouble] ...But this is only four years after the Heysel disaster..."
around ...11.00 - panellist talking about how Liverpool fans were treated on away days... "...on the back of the Heysel trouble "
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07864c5

The Albion Roar · Apr 28, 2016

nicko31 said:
Find it difficult to believe no one turned up without a ticket, back then lots travelled without tickets and touts were commonplace in football grounds.

What's that got to do with the disaster?

nicko31 said:
Wasn't there evidence given by turnstile operators during the inquest that there were ticketless fans?

There was a belief by a turnstile operator that 'late, ticketless fans caused the crush...'

But he didn't present 'evidence'.

Thunder Bolt · Apr 28, 2016

The Albion Roar said:
What's that got to do with the disaster?

There was a belief by a turnstile operator that 'late, ticketless fans caused the crush...'

But he didn't present 'evidence'.

A belief which was caused by the police blaming the fans instead of their own inexperience and grave errors.

Thunder Bolt · Apr 28, 2016

Thunder Bolt said:
Breaking news

[tweet]725339826006986752[/tweet]

The replacement is now also subject to an investigation.

[tweet]725766326560690177[/tweet]

ROSM · Apr 28, 2016

nicko31 said:
Find it difficult to believe no one turned up without a ticket, back then lots travelled without tickets and touts were commonplace in football grounds. Wasn't there evidence given by turnstile operators during the inquest that there were ticketless fans?

You may just as well ask how many people wore converse that day, because that also had no bearing on the events.

But once told that,you could continue to ask, saying

I can't believe people didn't wear converse that day?

who counted people wearing converse?

For all the bearing it would have on the matter

clapham_gull · Apr 29, 2016

nicko31 said:
Find it difficult to believe no one turned up without a ticket, back then lots travelled without tickets and touts were commonplace in football grounds. Wasn't there evidence given by turnstile operators during the inquest that there were ticketless fans?

What really is the problem ? Seriously. I've spoken to many people like you over the years.

All the evidence has been poured over, there are no secrets anymore. What's particularly interesting is that your argument was proved wrong years ago.

No I'll correct myself. It was never an argument, never has been. Merely an initial suggestion that was quickly disproved. I'll suggest that is was properly asked. Where there too many fans there ? Was the reason for that many were ticketless ?

The answer to the first question was no. The CCTV was available and the fans entering the stadium were counted.

So the answer to the second question becomes irrelevant.

That's a logical AND which you don't require a degree in maths to understand. Both statements have to be true.

You've were lied to.

Danny-Boy · May 1, 2016

portlock seagull said:
Was that because the documentary was about HILLSBOROUGH? Jesus, is it too much to ask people focus on facts of the matter here without dragging in personal agendas and prejudices. Talk about small minded. Starting to lose my cool with idiots like you commenting post this triumph of people over the establishment. And still the sniping goes on. Basically because there are stupid people in this world. 'Twas ever thus I guess, honestly I can't begin to believe how the families coped and fought for decades in the face of millions believing what they wanted to due to their own petty prejudices. Shame on you for bringing Heysel into the equation. What the **** has that got to do with the 96 and their families seeking justice over the past TWENTY SEVEN years?

The documentary was about Hillsborough and the way it was policed, not about the whole picture at the time.

Did the documentary for instance cover what REALLY caused the 96 deaths, the fact that grounds like Hillsborough had been fenced off, largely because of repeated invasions by crowds at games NOT ionvolving Liverpool but other notoriously worse-behaved crowds at Millwall, Leeds and other clubs?

But of course Albion fans have no guilty consciences over crowd invasions disrupting football games, have they?

Danny-Boy · May 1, 2016

chaileyjem said:
10.00 in a discussion about 80s football fans. Kelly Cates to panel "Was this particularly true for Liverpool fans [the caricature of football fans as "scum and causing trouble] ...But this is only four years after the Heysel disaster..."
around ...11.00 - panellist talking about how Liverpool fans were treated on away days... "...on the back of the Heysel trouble "
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07864c5

Thanks I must have missed that. But was the question of fencing brought up? Without that the fans would have just spilled onto the pitch. That had happened in other crowded terraces before Hillsborough.

The worst football disaster before Hillsborough in the UK was at Ibrox in 1971 (I think). There the fans had actually left the terraces near the end of the game, and were caught in narrow exit passages just as a late equaliser was scored in the Rangers-Celtic derby. I think there were steps involved which is always a dangerous area where crowds are concerned.

portlock seagull · May 1, 2016

Danny-Boy said:
The documentary was about Hillsborough and the way it was policed, not about the whole picture at the time.

Did the documentary for instance cover what REALLY caused the 96 deaths, the fact that grounds like Hillsborough had been fenced off, largely because of repeated invasions by crowds at games NOT ionvolving Liverpool but other notoriously worse-behaved crowds at Millwall, Leeds and other clubs?

But of course Albion fans have no guilty consciences over crowd invasions disrupting football games, have they?

Sorry, you've lost me. Anyway, back to the subject matter...

Danny-Boy · May 1, 2016

portlock seagull said:
Sorry, you've lost me. Anyway, back to the subject matter...

Which is The Truth. Which will out..

Sadly as one of your fans has admitted on here, the truth as seen in Australia of UK events is often somewhat at variance with what we are fed here, by organisations like the BBC - who seem to have escaped a public castigation over Savilegate, which was not just one afternoon in 1989 but a catalogue of cover-ups over 40 years or more.

Now THAT really needs to be looked at.

SIMMO SAYS · May 1, 2016

Danny-Boy said:
Which is The Truth. Which will out..

Sadly as one of your fans has admitted on here, the truth as seen in Australia of UK events is often somewhat at variance with what we are fed here, by organisations like the BBC - who seem to have escaped a public castigation over Savilegate, which was not just one afternoon in 1989 but a catalogue of cover-ups over 40 years or more.

Now THAT really needs to be looked at.

I'm confused, are you now saying you are 'The Truth' who used to post ballcocks on here regularly :moo:

portlock seagull · May 1, 2016

Danny-Boy said:
Which is The Truth. Which will out..

Sadly as one of your fans has admitted on here, the truth as seen in Australia of UK events is often somewhat at variance with what we are fed here, by organisations like the BBC - who seem to have escaped a public castigation over Savilegate, which was not just one afternoon in 1989 but a catalogue of cover-ups over 40 years or more.

Now THAT really needs to be looked at.

First of all sift the flour and salt into a large mixing bowl with the sieve held high above the bowl so the flour gets an airing.

Now make a well in the centre of the flour and break the eggs into it. Then begin whisking the eggs using an electric whisk or a balloon whisk – incorporating any bits of flour from around the edge of the bowl as you do so.

When the mixture starts thicken, gradually add small quantities of the milk and water mixture, still whisking (don't worry about any lumps as they will eventually disappear as you whisk).

The Albion Roar · May 1, 2016

Has anyone any idea what Danny-Boy is on about?

An altered reality perhaps?

Acker79 · May 1, 2016

The Albion Roar said:
Has anyone any idea what Danny-Boy is on about?

An altered reality perhaps?

As best as I can work out, there is something there about Brighton pitch invasions, probably referring to the protests during the Archer years, but could also refer to that Orient game, I suppose. This is somehow being linked to fences being used in the 80s because of all the pitch invasions (something which Liverpool has never, apparently, been guilty of). Or was there some other pitch invasion involving us that was before my time?

Then there seems to be something about Australian views of things in Britain being different to the views of people in Britain. Mentioning the BBC and Savile, (with the implication being the BBC controlled what British people saw, whereas they couldn't control what the Australians saw). I'm not entirely sure how this links to the conversation. Is/was Danny-Boy in Australia and suggesting he is seeing/saw things we're not privy to with regard to Hillsbrough/the latest investigation? Does he think Portlock Seagull is in Australia and seeing/saw things that are warping his view of Hillsbrough/the latest investigation?

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