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Southern Rail STRIKE details



beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,312
The Albion Roar said:
The issue of staffing is down to Southern. If the staff collectively or individually choose to work overtime or on days off, that's up to them. But to believe that not working overtime is a form of industrial action is pathetic and insulting. There is no contractural obligation for any member of staff to work overtime or on days off, yet the refusal - for the most part - of staff to do so on behalf of a company which is treating them like shit, is somehow being used as a stick to beat them with.
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lets be clear, i've been very careful to not accuse the staff of anything around the overtime, im open minded whether the lack of staff available to cover is due to Southern's threatened ban or individual's decision to not work overtime. i expect a combination. there's nothing insulting about this, it is a recognised form of industrail action and is perfectly in their rights to do so, but lets not pretend it isnt a cause of problems. if the staff were working all the overtime, then services would be running as "normal" (which for Southern is everything a little bit late).

we agree on something, that the strikes have been counterproductive, as it has brought blame on to the union and members where it was once wholey on Southern.
 




The Albion Roar

The Albion Roar

97.2FM
Aug 11, 2003
2,728
The Open Market
beorhthelm said:
lets be clear, i've been very careful to not accuse the staff of anything around the overtime, im open minded whether the lack of staff available to cover is due to Southern's threatened ban or individual's decision to not work overtime. i expect a combination. there's nothing insulting about this, it is a recognised form of industrail action and is perfectly in their rights to do so, but lets not pretend it isnt a cause of problems. if the staff were working all the overtime, then services would be running as "normal" (which for Southern is everything a little bit late).

we agree on something, that the strikes have been counterproductive, as it has brought blame on to the union and members where it was once wholey on Southern.
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In the issue of the staff not working overtime, the staff are not to blame. There is no blame to be attached for something whereby they won't do something they have no obligation to do.

If my goodwill was undermined and abused, I'd withdraw it and merely just get on with the job I'm employed to do.

The blame lies with GTR not employing enough people in the first place.
 


Arthur

Arthur

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2003
8,575
Buxted Harbour
RMT were protesting outside London Bridge this morning (although there were more camera crews than protestors). Was handed a card to fill out and post to my MP telling her that I supported lower fares. Whilst anything that is going to cost me less money is a wonderful thing isn't it all a big waste of time? Southern are employed by the government to run the service and collect revenue for on behalf of said government. Asking them to lower prices is like me going to my boss and asking for a pay cut surely?

Also why the feck do the RMT care about what us the passengers pay? They have travel passes so don't pay a bean.

Southern are a bunch of *****tains who couldn't run a bath let alone a rail network but the RMT are just making themselves look daft by treating us the paying public like we are fools.
 


Ernest

Ernest

Stupid IDIOT
Nov 8, 2003
42,739
LOONEY BIN
The Albion Roar said:
In the issue of the staff not working overtime, the staff are not to blame. There is no blame to be attached for something whereby they won't do something they have no obligation to do.

If my goodwill was undermined and abused, I'd withdraw it and merely just get on with the job I'm employed to do.

The blame lies with GTR not employing enough people in the first place.
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Part of the problem re. staff shortages is that managers who cover the shortfalls have been treated so poorly over the years that they now have given up and so making things even worse, even if someone is willing to work overtime it doesn't matter anymore.

SASTA as a company now is finished, the staff hate the managers, the managers hate the managers & directors above them and the directors don't care as the DfT are bankrolling the company and stopping any negotiations from happening as everyone knows the real motive is smashing the RMT & ASLEF.
 


N

Napper

Well-known member
Jul 9, 2003
23,877
Sussex
Ernest said:
Part of the problem re. staff shortages is that managers who cover the shortfalls have been treated so poorly over the years that they now have given up and so making things even worse, even if someone is willing to work overtime it doesn't matter anymore.

SASTA as a company now is finished, the staff hate the managers, the managers hate the managers & directors above them and the directors don't care as the DfT are bankrolling the company and stopping any negotiations from happening as everyone knows the real motive is smashing the RMT & ASLEF.
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staff should leave then. Why stay if that unhappy and worse of all stay and f k the public about.

Surely sign the agreements and then use the few years grace to go elsewhere

Just a thought and what most people do when jobs change and become unbearable due to management changing everything to suit them.
 




Deadly Danson

Deadly Danson

Well-known member
Oct 22, 2003
4,003
Brighton
Napper said:
staff should leave then. Why stay if that unhappy and worse of all stay and f k the public about.

Surely sign the agreements and then use the few years grace to go elsewhere

Just a thought and what most people do when jobs change and become unbearable due to management changing everything to suit them.
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Perhaps they genuinely care about the future of the railway and realise that if this battle is lost then the public will be left with a less safe, less customer focussed railway nationwide run on a shoestring with the sole intention of making more money for shareholders?
 


B

bhanutz

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2005
5,998
Deadly Danson said:
Perhaps they genuinely care about the future of the railway and realise that if this battle is lost then the public will be left with a less safe, less customer focussed railway nationwide run on a shoestring with the sole intention of making more money for shareholders?
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Less safe? You couldn't make it up! Wtf do you think you are doing at the moment? Making it safer? Deluded! You have a job to do! Do it!
 


Deadly Danson

Deadly Danson

Well-known member
Oct 22, 2003
4,003
Brighton
bhanutz said:
Less safe? You couldn't make it up! Wtf do you think you are doing at the moment? Making it safer? Deluded! You have a job to do! Do it!
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Can't believe I'm having to say this again but here goes. a) I'm doing my job and nothing has changed b) explain to me with your inside knowledge of train workings how taking away a safety critically trained member of staff from trains doesn't make the railway less safe?
 




N

Napper

Well-known member
Jul 9, 2003
23,877
Sussex
Deadly Danson said:
Perhaps they genuinely care about the future of the railway and realise that if this battle is lost then the public will be left with a less safe, less customer focussed railway nationwide run on a shoestring with the sole intention of making more money for shareholders?
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That's the line used but let's be honest it's about there jobs and self preservation which you can't fight them with .

I back them btw but let's be real
 


B

bhanutz

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2005
5,998
Deadly Danson said:
Can't believe I'm having to say this again but here goes. a) I'm doing my job and nothing has changed b) explain to me with your inside knowledge of train workings how taking away a safety critically trained member of staff from trains doesn't make the railway less safe?
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By working to rule and having an emergency timetable, you are creating a situation where the trains are more overcrowded than they normally are. You don't need any inside knowledge to understand that can't be safer than it was before! I will await for you to liaise with your union rep before you reply
 


Deadly Danson

Deadly Danson

Well-known member
Oct 22, 2003
4,003
Brighton
Napper said:
That's the line used but let's be honest it's about there jobs and self preservation which you can't fight them with .

I back them btw but let's be real
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It honestly isn't just a line used I promise. Of course there's an element of self preservation but don't forget, as you say, their jobs (if you believe Sasta) have been guaranteed till the end of the franchise. Now we all know what that will mean come the end of the franchise but the fact that their jobs have been guaranteed till then I would argue makes their fight even more commendable especially as many will have moved on by then. I know people think we are all just dinosaurs trying to protect our way of life but, I at least, passionately care about the safety both now and in the future of the passengers not to mention accessibility for disabled passengers and onboard safety for any vulnerable passengers. I'm happy for people to disagree about whether a second safety critical member of staff is needed or better/worse but I do get annoyed by people assuming we are all out for ourselves and we don't care about safety.
 




C

coagulantwolf

New member
Jun 21, 2012
716
bhanutz said:
By working to rule and having an emergency timetable, you are creating a situation where the trains are more overcrowded than they normally are. You don't need any inside knowledge to understand that can't be safer than it was before! I will await for you to liaise with your union rep before you reply
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Are you just on one big fishing trip? ???
 


Deadly Danson

Deadly Danson

Well-known member
Oct 22, 2003
4,003
Brighton
bhanutz said:
By working to rule and having an emergency timetable, you are creating a situation where the trains are more overcrowded than they normally are. You don't need any inside knowledge to understand that can't be safer than it was before! I will await for you to liaise with your union rep before you reply
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You don't need to wait - the emergency timetable has been introduced by Sasta because they don't employ enough staff. I've never worked rest days and I certainly don't intend to start now. Are you suggesting staff should be forced to work overtime to overcome staff shortages?
 






B

bhanutz

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2005
5,998
Deadly Danson said:
You don't need to wait - the emergency timetable has been introduced by Sasta because they don't employ enough staff. I've never worked rest days and I certainly don't intend to start now. Are you suggesting staff should be forced to work overtime to overcome staff shortages?
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No, I am suggesting that it was never a problem before and there were plenty happy to do this and get paid to do this..this I have been told first hand...now if it was all about passenger safety, why create a situation where safety is worse now?

Unfortunately for you, the public aren't stupid enough to fall for the safety bollocks that you keep referring to! I
 


S

smeg

New member
Feb 11, 2013
980
BN13
bhanutz said:
By working to rule and having an emergency timetable, you are creating a situation where the trains are more overcrowded than they normally are. You don't need any inside knowledge to understand that can't be safer than it was before! I will await for you to liaise with your union rep before you reply
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Are you seriously suggesting it's the fault of the staff? I'm a regular commuter and my anger is directed firmly at Southern.
 








The Albion Roar

The Albion Roar

97.2FM
Aug 11, 2003
2,728
The Open Market
Arthur said:
RMT were protesting outside London Bridge this morning (although there were more camera crews than protestors). Was handed a card to fill out and post to my MP telling her that I supported lower fares. Whilst anything that is going to cost me less money is a wonderful thing isn't it all a big waste of time? Southern are employed by the government to run the service and collect revenue for on behalf of said government. Asking them to lower prices is like me going to my boss and asking for a pay cut surely?
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Not really. How much your boss charges his clients / customers isn't necessarily your concern. Just because he might lower a price on a given piece of work doesn't follow he will cut your salary because of it. You have a contract that says you receive X,000 in pay, and nothing changes that.

Arthur said:
Also why the feck do the RMT care about what us the passengers pay? They have travel passes so don't pay a bean.
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I don't support Blackpool or Charlton, but I do care about how their fans are treated. The railway staff know they're in a privileged position of not needing to pay for their train travel (though that was suspended briefly earlier this year), and do appreciate the aggravation paying customers are going through. They see it every day, and are being blamed for it.

On a certain level, Southern staff get the frontline grief from passengers pissed off at fare increases. Do they deserve that? Some - not many, but some - customers are fools who prefer to pick on the small guy.

But in the long run - you're right, it is largely a waste of time as Southern / HMG will do what they want anyway.
 


Ernest

Ernest

Stupid IDIOT
Nov 8, 2003
42,739
LOONEY BIN
Deadly Danson said:
I think he is and I wish I hadn't been drawn in again cos I'm only making myself angry again.
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Don't bother responding to the idiots and the trolls, not worth the hassle. I proved that the other day when I gave the RMT details to a guy so he could get all the paperwork and details of the case behind the dispute and of course he didn't bother. They would rather just sit and type their anti union spite and bile from behind the safety of their keyboards
 


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