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Southern Rail STRIKE details



S

Springal

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2005
23,830
GOSBTS
Suggestions strike being called off at last minute, but emergency timetable already implemented and possibly unable to be reserved.

Must admit this is turning into a farce, a 5 day strike is a joke. 5 days of difficulty getting into London and doing a days work would put me in a very difficult position with any employer.
 






beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,288
Deadly Danson said:
Hot off the press-seems reasonable to me:
https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/letter-to-mr-charles-horton-offering-to-suspend-action/
Click to expand...

yes it does. though as a passenger i'd put a caveat around point 3: that its permissible for a service to run without a conductor at times of significant network disruption, for the minimum necessary period. that's the problem being addressed, disruptions spread across the network and continue for the rest of the day due to staff displacement. sticking rigidly to point 3 means there's no net benefit of DOO.

let hope they can all see sense, because tens of thousands of people's lives going to be significantly disrupted next week otherwise.
 




Deadly Danson

Deadly Danson

Well-known member
Oct 22, 2003
3,988
Brighton
beorhthelm said:
yes it does. though as a passenger i'd put a caveat around point 3: that its permissible for a service to run without a conductor at times of significant network disruption, for the minimum necessary period. that's the problem being addressed, disruptions spread across the network and continue for the rest of the day due to staff displacement. sticking rigidly to point 3 means there's no net benefit of DOO.

let hope they can all see sense, because tens of thousands of people's lives going to be significantly disrupted next week otherwise.
Click to expand...

To be honest that's one of the main cruxes of the dispute. If trains are allowed to go during disruption (which is everyday ) without a guard then it really won't take long before they are deemed surplus. Has happened everytime so far in cases such as these. The solution would be either to keep the guard and driver together all day or to employ sufficient guards to keep every service running.
 








Deadly Danson

Deadly Danson

Well-known member
Oct 22, 2003
3,988
Brighton
Arthur said:
What have they compromised on?
Click to expand...

As far as i can see mainly the method of dispatch which they can discuss. If GTR really want to have more guards walking through trains (which we know is not their motive) then this allows them to do this. And if Scotrail can offer this then there is no reason that GTR can't.
 




Bozza

Bozza

You can change this
Helpful Moderator
Jul 4, 2003
55,705
Back in Sussex
"I feel that this is a positive way forward that will bring an end to this dispute and enable Southern to start running a full service again."

Presumably not as long as the mysterious illness continues. Or perhaps, by way of bizarre coincidence, it will clear up at exactly same time.
 


Deadly Danson

Deadly Danson

Well-known member
Oct 22, 2003
3,988
Brighton
Bozza said:
"I feel that this is a positive way forward that will bring an end to this dispute and enable Southern to start running a full service again."

Presumably not as long as the mysterious illness continues. Or perhaps, by way of bizarre coincidence, it will clear up at exactly same time.
Click to expand...

There really isn't much sickness at least at Brighton. I have no numbers but as far as I can see a few conductors have quit, there are quite a few now training to be drivers, a few have moved into management or training roles-actively encouraged by GTR and most are understandably doing less overtime.
 


L

lost in london

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2003
1,780
London
Isn't one issue that if conductors become fare enforcement bods, if they have to take someone off the train, the conductor will get off as well until the police turn up? If the conductor has to be on the train at all times, this presumably impacts their fare enforcement role, making the whole move pointless?
 




Norman Baker suck my lozenge

Norman Baker suck my lozenge

New member
Feb 24, 2004
6,638
Freshening up for the Ladies.
Deadly Danson said:
There really isn't much sickness at least at Brighton. I have no numbers but as far as I can see a few conductors have quit, there are quite a few now training to be drivers, a few have moved into management or training roles-actively encouraged by GTR and most are understandably doing less overtime.
Click to expand...

There is not as much sickness as Southern would like you to think,Southern is seriously,seriously under staffed,they're trying to run a railway with staff doing rest day working and overtime,as I understand it staff are now refusing to work rest days and do overtime,as is their right.
 


Arthur

Arthur

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2003
8,553
Buxted Harbour
Deadly Danson said:
As far as i can see mainly the method of dispatch which they can discuss. If GTR really want to have more guards walking through trains (which we know is not their motive) then this allows them to do this. And if Scotrail can offer this then there is no reason that GTR can't.
Click to expand...

Thanks.

Are Scotrail also owned by the same parent company as Southern?
 


Norman Baker suck my lozenge

Norman Baker suck my lozenge

New member
Feb 24, 2004
6,638
Freshening up for the Ladies.
Bozza said:
"I feel that this is a positive way forward that will bring an end to this dispute and enable Southern to start running a full service again."

Presumably not as long as the mysterious illness continues. Or perhaps, by way of bizarre coincidence, it will clear up at exactly same time.
Click to expand...

Probably more likely that southern will not accept this offer,they know they are seriously under staffed ,it's always been more convenient for the right wing press to blame "the nasty unions"
 




The Albion Roar

The Albion Roar

97.2FM
Aug 11, 2003
2,726
The Open Market
Arthur said:
Thanks.

Are Scotrail also owned by the same parent company as Southern?
Click to expand...

No. Southern and Thameslink are owned by the British/French company Govia (65% Go-Ahead, 35% Keolis).

Scotrail are owned by the Dutch company Abellio, who in turn are owned by Nederlandse Spoorwegen.

So when people talk of nationalising the railways, they are - in part. Scotrail is owned by the Dutch government.
 


beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,288
Norman Baker suck my lozenge said:
There is not as much sickness as Southern would like you to think,Southern is seriously,seriously under staffed,they're trying to run a railway with staff doing rest day working and overtime,as I understand it staff are now refusing to work rest days and do overtime,as is their right.
Click to expand...

though we have established that the short staffing is a decades old practice across the whole industry (and beyond). i'm not clear whether or not the short staffing has increased in recent years.
 




Arthur

Arthur

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2003
8,553
Buxted Harbour
The Albion Roar said:
No. Southern and Thameslink are owned by the British/French company Govia.

Scotrail are owned by the Dutch company Abellio, who in turn are owned by Nederlandse Spoorwegen.

So when people talk of nationalising the railways, they are - in part. Scotrail is owned by the Dutch government.
Click to expand...

Thanks I assumed that was the case. Which kinda answers [MENTION=1332]Deadly Danson[/MENTION] question about why it can't work down here.....different parent company, different motives possibly. Not saying that is right or wrong.

Lets be positive and say Southern will accept the unions terms and the strike is called off is that right what the Argus states that the timetable is now in place and can't be changed regardless on whether it goes ahead or not?
 




Ernest

Ernest

Stupid IDIOT
Nov 8, 2003
42,739
LOONEY BIN
Arthur said:
Thanks I assumed that was the case. Which kinda answers [MENTION=1332]Deadly Danson[/MENTION] question about why it can't work down here.....different parent company, different motives possibly. Not saying that is right or wrong.

Lets be positive and say Southern will accept the unions terms and the strike is called off is that right what the Argus states that the timetable is now in place and can't be changed regardless on whether it goes ahead or not?
Click to expand...

It could be changed at the flick of a switch, there is nothing to stop them if strikes are called off today running a 'normal' service next week, if they say they can't the question should be why not and explain fully why you can't
 


The Albion Roar

The Albion Roar

97.2FM
Aug 11, 2003
2,726
The Open Market
Arthur said:
Thanks I assumed that was the case. Which kinda answers [MENTION=1332]Deadly Danson[/MENTION] question about why it can't work down here.....different parent company, different motives possibly. Not saying that is right or wrong.
Click to expand...

I don't know why it can't work down here. But I think the more pertinent question is about 'it won't work down here'.

Don't forget, Southern have said (public meeting, Brighton - a few weeks ago) that if they don't implement these changes (i.e. the introduction of DOO across the network), they are in breach of contract. To which the question would be 'breach of contract with whom...?'. The answer would have to be DfT.

It's not a major leap to see that this is being imposed from higher up than Southern.

The RMT's beef should be with the government. Not excusing Southern as they - in the form of Charles Horton - are a willing player, but they are basically the patsy for the government's will.

Arthur said:
Lets be positive and say Southern will accept the unions terms and the strike is called off is that right what the Argus states that the timetable is now in place and can't be changed regardless on whether it goes ahead or not?
Click to expand...

One would hope not, but let's face it, Southern neither have the will nor the obligation to adhere to passengers' wishes.
 


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