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  1. #6381
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    0 Not allowed!
    You only have to see the claim daily emails to see that its over.

    Ultimately Southern won and I doubt they thought would be this easy.

    Unions hindered in this instance.

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    • #6382
      Stupid IDIOT Ernest's Avatar
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      0 Not allowed!
      Quote Originally Posted by Napper View Post
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      You only have to see the claim daily emails to see that its over.

      Ultimately Southern won and I doubt they thought would be this easy.

      Unions hindered in this instance.
      Really ?
    • #6383
      Members Arthur's Avatar
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      0 Not allowed!
      Quote Originally Posted by Buzzer View Post
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      Has anyone received an email from Southern/Government with details of how to apply for the 1 month refund of a season ticket yet? I recall that they were going to be sent out in mid-January but I've not heard anything.
      Yep, had mine last week. Was paid in to my account yesterday.
    • #6384
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      1 Not allowed!
      This was written on a Facebook page but worth sharing

      Very good article has appeared on Brighton FB page.
      FAKE AGREEMENTS
      There has been much in the media in recent weeks regarding " fake news " it would appear we now have the phenomenon of the " fake agreement " .
      Mick Cash worked through the " Agreement " GTR had reached with ASLEF so that there was a clear record of the Companies interpretation of the clauses contained in the agreement .
      It was clear by the conclusion of Mick's questioning , that the agreement was actually worse than was feared and that the Companies interpretation of the agreement was very different to the explanation ASLEF gave to their members prior to the referendum .
      The Company made it clear that their was no guarantee of a second Safety Critical member of staff or even a guarantee of a second person on the trains . They also made it clear that the OBS role is not a Safety Critical position ( they could carry out the safety critical task of train dispatch if the cameras failed or a door malfunction occurred ) . They also stated without any ambiguity that the inclusion of the clause that services could run DOO if the OBS was not available due to unauthorised absence covered OBS involved in industrial action . We were also informed for the first time that the Company ,in what they see as providing customer service to the greatest amount of customers , intend to take OBS off quiet services to enable them to put additional staff on busier services.
      It is not clear what " exceptional circumstance " they intend to use to facilitate this .
      The statement that GTR would move OBS from quiet services on to busier services would cause further detriment to disabled access . It would also make it near impossible for Drivers to know if they would/should have an OBS on their service .
      The Company also conceded that the Agreement reached with ASLEF was the same offer that was rejected by the RMT back in August 2016 with some minor word changes .
      It was clear that ASLEF and GTR have major differences of opinion in how the agreement should be interpreted. In fact a reasonable person could rightly view that the total lack of clarity on the interpretation of key clauses meant that no agreement had actually been reached .Both parties left the negotiating table with their own version of what the key clauses in the document meant.
      They had created a " FAKE AGREEMENT " so as to allow both sides to walk away claiming to have achieved their goals despite remaining as far apart on the main issues as when the talks commenced .
      RMT's POSITION
      Mick asked GTR if they were prepared to have discussions around restoring a second Safety Critical person to services and on the method of train dispatch .
      The Company refused to consider this approach and insisted that their agreement with ASLEF was what they envisaged as the way forward .
      This brought the meeting to a close as the RMT viewed that the ASLEF agreement failed to address the very real concerns of frontline staff regarding the need for a second Safety Critical person on Southern's services , concerns shared by the disabled and the travelling public .
      I think it is important to stress what an excellent job Mick Cash did in leading our negotiating team at this very difficult meeting . We left ACAS with the Company left in no doubt regarding the RMT's determination to meet the aspirations of our members to ensure the return of the second Safety Critical person on Southern train services .
      DRIVERS REFERENDUM RESULT
      Our Sisters and Brothers in ASLEF should be congratulated for rejecting this " FAKE AGREEMENT despite the ASLEF National Executive recommending that they should vote to accept . Thankfully the Drivers recognised that this so called agreement gave GTR everything they wanted while failing to address any of the Drivers concerns around DOO .
      GTR will have considered getting such a one sided agreement put out to referendum as a success and will have rejoiced at getting ASLEF National Executive to recommend it to Drivers .
      The danger is that GTR may consider that a few tweaks will be all it will take to make this agreement acceptable .
      Drivers need to make it clear to their negotiating team that this agreement needs to be THROWN OUT not re hashed .
      The RMT position is that no amount of tweaks will make this " FAKE AGREEMENT " acceptable to our members and that the solution lies in securing a guaranteed second Safety Critical person on every train that operated with a Conductor prior to April 2016 .
    • #6385
      A. Virgo, Football Genius
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      0 Not allowed!
      morning commuters. realised last night that todays strike is only affecting a handful of services, with select trains not running but not wholesale lines not running. bad news is that means no automatic delay repay for WFH, so off to the office.
      Daily Mail readers are living in a perpetual hell, expecting their homes to be overrun at any minute by hoodie wearing, skunk smoking, muslim, transgender, asylum seekers.
    • #6386
      Members wellquickwoody's Avatar
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      0 Not allowed!
      Quote Originally Posted by albionite View Post
      This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
      This was written on a Facebook page but worth sharing

      Very good article has appeared on Brighton FB page.
      FAKE AGREEMENTS
      There has been much in the media in recent weeks regarding " fake news " it would appear we now have the phenomenon of the " fake agreement " .
      Mick Cash worked through the " Agreement " GTR had reached with ASLEF so that there was a clear record of the Companies interpretation of the clauses contained in the agreement .
      It was clear by the conclusion of Mick's questioning , that the agreement was actually worse than was feared and that the Companies interpretation of the agreement was very different to the explanation ASLEF gave to their members prior to the referendum .
      The Company made it clear that their was no guarantee of a second Safety Critical member of staff or even a guarantee of a second person on the trains . They also made it clear that the OBS role is not a Safety Critical position ( they could carry out the safety critical task of train dispatch if the cameras failed or a door malfunction occurred ) . They also stated without any ambiguity that the inclusion of the clause that services could run DOO if the OBS was not available due to unauthorised absence covered OBS involved in industrial action . We were also informed for the first time that the Company ,in what they see as providing customer service to the greatest amount of customers , intend to take OBS off quiet services to enable them to put additional staff on busier services.
      It is not clear what " exceptional circumstance " they intend to use to facilitate this .
      The statement that GTR would move OBS from quiet services on to busier services would cause further detriment to disabled access . It would also make it near impossible for Drivers to know if they would/should have an OBS on their service .
      The Company also conceded that the Agreement reached with ASLEF was the same offer that was rejected by the RMT back in August 2016 with some minor word changes .
      It was clear that ASLEF and GTR have major differences of opinion in how the agreement should be interpreted. In fact a reasonable person could rightly view that the total lack of clarity on the interpretation of key clauses meant that no agreement had actually been reached .Both parties left the negotiating table with their own version of what the key clauses in the document meant.
      They had created a " FAKE AGREEMENT " so as to allow both sides to walk away claiming to have achieved their goals despite remaining as far apart on the main issues as when the talks commenced .
      RMT's POSITION
      Mick asked GTR if they were prepared to have discussions around restoring a second Safety Critical person to services and on the method of train dispatch .
      The Company refused to consider this approach and insisted that their agreement with ASLEF was what they envisaged as the way forward .
      This brought the meeting to a close as the RMT viewed that the ASLEF agreement failed to address the very real concerns of frontline staff regarding the need for a second Safety Critical person on Southern's services , concerns shared by the disabled and the travelling public .
      I think it is important to stress what an excellent job Mick Cash did in leading our negotiating team at this very difficult meeting . We left ACAS with the Company left in no doubt regarding the RMT's determination to meet the aspirations of our members to ensure the return of the second Safety Critical person on Southern train services .
      DRIVERS REFERENDUM RESULT
      Our Sisters and Brothers in ASLEF should be congratulated for rejecting this " FAKE AGREEMENT despite the ASLEF National Executive recommending that they should vote to accept . Thankfully the Drivers recognised that this so called agreement gave GTR everything they wanted while failing to address any of the Drivers concerns around DOO .
      GTR will have considered getting such a one sided agreement put out to referendum as a success and will have rejoiced at getting ASLEF National Executive to recommend it to Drivers .
      The danger is that GTR may consider that a few tweaks will be all it will take to make this agreement acceptable .
      Drivers need to make it clear to their negotiating team that this agreement needs to be THROWN OUT not re hashed .
      The RMT position is that no amount of tweaks will make this " FAKE AGREEMENT " acceptable to our members and that the solution lies in securing a guaranteed second Safety Critical person on every train that operated with a Conductor prior to April 2016 .
      Is this not a FAKE STRIKE now, seeing as it has such little effect? The only people losing substantially are the guards.
      Simon Jordan, "Palace could be the Manchester United of the South" - That is why I love having the gypsies as our rivals
    • #6387
      DIIIIIIIIIIIIIVE See-Goals's Avatar
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      0 Not allowed!
      Trains are even running from Seaford today, we are normally guaranteed coach replacement on strike days.

      Trains are looking good for later if they stick to what they say are running. This strike looks a complete waste of time.
    • #6388
      Members Lower West Stander's Avatar
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      0 Not allowed!
      Yep - no problem getting in at all this morning. So just what is the point of this? Have the RMT got agreement on the qt or is the protest just fizzling out as we all find ways round their striking?

      As I drove to Barnham station this morning, I noticed a gaggle of guards with RMT badges outside their common rooms - I found this strangely irritating and a bit gutless. How about standing directly outside the station? Or are they scared of what they'll get back from commuters?


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    • #6389
      Members Deadly Danson's Avatar
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      4 Not allowed!
      Quote Originally Posted by Lower West Stander View Post
      This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
      Yep - no problem getting in at all this morning. So just what is the point of this? Have the RMT got agreement on the qt or is the protest just fizzling out as we all find ways round their striking?

      As I drove to Barnham station this morning, I noticed a gaggle of guards with RMT badges outside their common rooms - I found this strangely irritating and a bit gutless. How about standing directly outside the station? Or are they scared of what they'll get back from commuters?


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      They aren't allowed as they would be blocking access. And they are not gutless, the impact may not be as great now that DOO has spread but they are sacrificing more pay to stand up for their principles and to try and retain some semblance of safety and accessibility on the railway. Disagree with their cause and methods if you like but they are certainly not gutless.
    • #6390
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      0 Not allowed!
      Is there a strike today? Could have fooled me. Pretty much full service running this morning
      900k people in Bromley & Croydon, almost double pop of Manchester. Bigger than Norwich & Ipswich. Fickle fans in terms of attendance, cup games increased attendance do not help.
      Steve Parish - CPFC2010

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