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Southern Rail STRIKE details



G

Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,339
Uffern
Whitechapel said:
My train home from work has now been cancelled until further notice.

Over 90 minutes without a train stopping at Goring station either way. F*cking shambles.
Click to expand...

On a non-strike day too - let's see how RMT/ASLEF is blamed for that one.

A few weeks ago, I had to go for a meeting in Angmering, my train was so late that I turned back straight away as I would have missed more than an hour of the meeting. I waited 145 minutes for a train; I returned to my house six hours after leaving it and hadn't really gone anywhere - that was a non-strike day too.

These strikes have just given SASTA an excuse for their incompetence
 








M

Mellor 3 Ward 4

Well-known member
Jul 27, 2004
9,801
saaf of the water
From the MP for Horsham.....

Yesterday evening with other local MPs I met the Prime Minister to discuss ongoing actions to address the Rail dispute.

It is clear from every source I have spoken to that the management put forward constructive proposals at ACAS and did so over two and half days of talks. Ultimately they got nowhere.

RMT members have overwhelmingly accepted their new contracts which commence from 1st January. We know the ASLEF strike isn't about jobs or wages. They claim it is about a system of working - one which they have endorsed since the early 1980s and which their drivers are already using every day on 30 per cent of the network. It is a system used commonly around Europe. The system works safely and well.

The stations within the Horsham constituency include Balcombe Station on the Brighton Mainline (which is receiving the new class of trains first) and stations on route to Horsham itself.

I appreciate fully that the "Arun Valley" line has older lay-out, more rural, stations and is currently served by Class 377s with older cameras. However every station has been checked for safe DOO operation and the Director of Safety at the Office of Rail and Road Regulation has confirmed that the correct procedures have been followed. Where drivers identify concerns or ideas as to how to improve DOO operations on the Arun Valley line I am clearly all in favour of these being raised by them and if appropriate addressed by Southern - via ACAS if that is really required. DOO is safe but if there are genuine specific safety concerns these should be addressed directly.

I am sure I am not alone on having been on a Horsham train which has been delayed due to reported problems with the DOO cameras. This concerned me from a safety perspective. I tabled the written Parliamentary Question below and received a response this morning. The clear implication is that when trains are affected by reported camera failure these failures are not apparent when subsequently checked.

"Question:

To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, what reports he has received on Southern trains (a) being taken out of service and (b) skipping stations or suffering delays due to cameras on driver-only operation trains failing. (56969)

Tabled on: 12 December 2016

Answer:

Paul Maynard: Govia Thameslink Railway is not required to provide the Department with detailed information on the causes of train failures. Officials have discussed camera failures with Southern, who confirmed that there has been a noticeable increase in camera defects reported. However, when investigated, no faults have been found by technical teams.

The answer was submitted on 20 Dec 2016 at 11:44."

I am increasingly convinced that the strikes are for deeper reasons, which may be impossible to address to the Unions' satisfaction. The Sunday Times front page ran a story this week alleging that the President of the RMT (a union that has balloted for industrial action 56 times in 2016) declared that "the "No 1 rule" for his union.was to "strive to replace the capitalist system with a socialist order" " The article also made a series of other similar allegations.

I am all for concerns being addressed through ACAS, agreements being made and railways returning to normal.

However if the heart of the complaint isn't about working practices but is political this may be impossible to achieve.

I have pushed hard for the Department for Transport to do far more to enable commuters to get to work if these strikes persist. There are huge logistical and practical issues with trying to transport up to 500,000 people across the South East in these circumstances but I believe that more could and should be done.

I have expressed my particular concern about those who are self-employed and only get paid in the event of them being able to get to their place of work and I have asked the Department to look urgently as to how these passengers could be assisted. Government also has a role in taking up the cause of passengers with employers: they have to recognise that commuters are suffering through absolutely no fault of their own.

I have always believed that there is a valuable role for Trade Unions and I personally have always been reluctant to legislate, especially in circumstances when it could be perceived to be in reaction to a particular strike. However many have contacted me to urge just such a course of action. In other major economies (most of which are far less dependent than we are on rail travel) there is legislation restricting strike action on transport networks to what is proportionate or requiring a minimum level of service even on strike days. If this action continues without any prospect of resolution this will have to come on to the agenda.

Yours sincerely,

Jeremy Quin
 


A

albionite

Well-known member
May 20, 2009
2,753
Mellor 3 Ward 4 said:
From the MP for Horsham.....

Yesterday evening with other local MPs I met the Prime Minister to discuss ongoing actions to address the Rail dispute.

It is clear from every source I have spoken to that the management put forward constructive proposals at ACAS and did so over two and half days of talks. Ultimately they got nowhere.

RMT members have overwhelmingly accepted their new contracts which commence from 1st January. We know the ASLEF strike isn't about jobs or wages. They claim it is about a system of working - one which they have endorsed since the early 1980s and which their drivers are already using every day on 30 per cent of the network. It is a system used commonly around Europe. The system works safely and well.

The stations within the Horsham constituency include Balcombe Station on the Brighton Mainline (which is receiving the new class of trains first) and stations on route to Horsham itself.

I appreciate fully that the "Arun Valley" line has older lay-out, more rural, stations and is currently served by Class 377s with older cameras. However every station has been checked for safe DOO operation and the Director of Safety at the Office of Rail and Road Regulation has confirmed that the correct procedures have been followed. Where drivers identify concerns or ideas as to how to improve DOO operations on the Arun Valley line I am clearly all in favour of these being raised by them and if appropriate addressed by Southern - via ACAS if that is really required. DOO is safe but if there are genuine specific safety concerns these should be addressed directly.

I am sure I am not alone on having been on a Horsham train which has been delayed due to reported problems with the DOO cameras. This concerned me from a safety perspective. I tabled the written Parliamentary Question below and received a response this morning. The clear implication is that when trains are affected by reported camera failure these failures are not apparent when subsequently checked.

"Question:

To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, what reports he has received on Southern trains (a) being taken out of service and (b) skipping stations or suffering delays due to cameras on driver-only operation trains failing. (56969)

Tabled on: 12 December 2016

Answer:

Paul Maynard: Govia Thameslink Railway is not required to provide the Department with detailed information on the causes of train failures. Officials have discussed camera failures with Southern, who confirmed that there has been a noticeable increase in camera defects reported. However, when investigated, no faults have been found by technical teams.

The answer was submitted on 20 Dec 2016 at 11:44."

I am increasingly convinced that the strikes are for deeper reasons, which may be impossible to address to the Unions' satisfaction. The Sunday Times front page ran a story this week alleging that the President of the RMT (a union that has balloted for industrial action 56 times in 2016) declared that "the "No 1 rule" for his union.was to "strive to replace the capitalist system with a socialist order" " The article also made a series of other similar allegations.

I am all for concerns being addressed through ACAS, agreements being made and railways returning to normal.

However if the heart of the complaint isn't about working practices but is political this may be impossible to achieve.

I have pushed hard for the Department for Transport to do far more to enable commuters to get to work if these strikes persist. There are huge logistical and practical issues with trying to transport up to 500,000 people across the South East in these circumstances but I believe that more could and should be done.

I have expressed my particular concern about those who are self-employed and only get paid in the event of them being able to get to their place of work and I have asked the Department to look urgently as to how these passengers could be assisted. Government also has a role in taking up the cause of passengers with employers: they have to recognise that commuters are suffering through absolutely no fault of their own.

I have always believed that there is a valuable role for Trade Unions and I personally have always been reluctant to legislate, especially in circumstances when it could be perceived to be in reaction to a particular strike. However many have contacted me to urge just such a course of action. In other major economies (most of which are far less dependent than we are on rail travel) there is legislation restricting strike action on transport networks to what is proportionate or requiring a minimum level of service even on strike days. If this action continues without any prospect of resolution this will have to come on to the agenda.

Yours sincerely,

Jeremy Quin
Click to expand...

I do wonder if any of these Tory MPs will have some balls and break rank.

Instead of keeping up with same lies.
 








wellquickwoody

wellquickwoody

Many More Voting Years
NSC Patron
Aug 10, 2007
13,624
Melbourne
DarrenFreemansPerm said:
[tweet]811678123100110850[/tweet]
Click to expand...

Having had my Xmas do at the Komedia in the last week or so, they got off very bloody lightly. Compere is pretty damn sharp and was obviously struggling to take the pixx whilst keeping it under control. Brave guys, hopefully might realise how pixxed off everyone is.
 




beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,310
Gwylan said:
On a non-strike day too - let's see how RMT/ASLEF is blamed for that one.
Click to expand...

the overtime ban? we can all question the sanity of running a service relying on overtime, but its been standard industry practice for decades (as confirmed by our resident union reps), so here we are. ASLEF can bugger up the service just as well as Southern can, without even going on strike. and if they have the resolve, they will continue the industrial action for far longer than RMT, who already gave in with the acceptance of the new contracts. they'll love that too, getting one up on the other union.
 


A

albionite

Well-known member
May 20, 2009
2,753
beorhthelm said:
the overtime ban? we can all question the sanity of running a service relying on overtime, but its been standard industry practice for decades (as confirmed by our resident union reps), so here we are. ASLEF can bugger up the service just as well as Southern can, without even going on strike. and if they have the resolve, they will continue the industrial action for far longer than RMT, who already gave in with the acceptance of the new contracts. they'll love that too, getting one up on the other union.
Click to expand...
You really do not have a clue what you are talking about.
 


beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,310
albionite said:
You really do not have a clue what you are talking about.
Click to expand...

please explain then: there isnt an overtime ban, services dont relying on overtime, ASLEF doesnt have a position of strength, RMT havent advised members to accept the contract? which of these are wrong, because they are all verifiable from the unions own PR.
 




Whitechapel

Whitechapel

Famous Last Words
Jul 19, 2014
4,074
Not in Whitechapel
Tom Hark said:
Some senile old **** tried to drive his car along the railway line slap bang at the start of the rush hour this evening at Yapton level crossing it would appear, because his satnav told him to. Sake!

'UPDATED: Police attend car on rail tracks, train passengers face three-hour delay'

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/1498...acks__train_passengers_face_three_hour_delay/
Click to expand...

Didn't stop SASTA claiming the 21:47 from Goring to Brighton would arrive at 22:26 online, so I left work 30 minutes early to catch that train as the 23:15 was cancelled, meaning the next train wasn't until 23:50. Get to the station and the information board lists one train. The 20:02 arriving at 20:20. Now it doesn't take 20/20 vision (geddit?) to realise that telling people about a train from two hours ago was less than useless. Looked on the Southern site. Just says delayed, no time, no indication of the last stop it was at, nothing. Every station was either 'cancelled', 'no report' or 'delayed' in a seemingly random order.

So I'm now sitting at the station. The last 700 that goes to Shoreham leaves at 22:30 although yesterday that didn't turn up at all (Stagecoach obviously not wanting Southern to hog all the shithouserry). It's 22:15. Do I wait it out for the 22:26 which could be around the corner or in Barnham? Do I go to the bus stop and risk missing the train? I tweet SASTA but I'm still waiting on a reply. What a fat lot of help they are.
 


Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,562
The Fatherland
Whitechapel said:
Didn't stop SASTA claiming the 21:47 from Goring to Brighton would arrive at 22:26 online, so I left work 30 minutes early to catch that train as the 23:15 was cancelled, meaning the next train wasn't until 23:50. Get to the station and the information board lists one train. The 20:02 arriving at 20:20. Now it doesn't take 20/20 vision (geddit?) to realise that telling people about a train from two hours ago was less than useless. Looked on the Southern site. Just says delayed, no time, no indication of the last stop it was at, nothing. Every station was either 'cancelled', 'no report' or 'delayed' in a seemingly random order.

So I'm now sitting at the station. The last 700 that goes to Shoreham leaves at 22:30 although yesterday that didn't turn up at all (Stagecoach obviously not wanting Southern to hog all the shithouserry). It's 22:15. Do I wait it out for the 22:26 which could be around the corner or in Barnham? Do I go to the bus stop and risk missing the train? I tweet SASTA but I'm still waiting on a reply. What a fat lot of help they are.
Click to expand...

it's unbelievable. Utterly unbelievable. I am now of the view I hope the unions drag this sorry state of Grayling supported shit shower into the ground. Then, and only then, can a decent railway begin. We now need an all out indefinite strike.
 


Buzzer

Buzzer

Languidly Clinical
Oct 1, 2006
26,121
I went to the midnight showing of Rogue One at Waterloo with my sons. After the film we wandered down to Victoria to get the 4am train. The very first train.

Waited on the train... And waited and then at 4.20 the driver said the train will not be running. No explanation, nothing. So we're currently on the train next to it waiting for this to depart at 4.52.

Meanwhile, the train we were kicked off has just left Victoria station. Utter piss-takers.
 




Tom Hark Preston Park

Tom Hark Preston Park

Will Post For Cash
Jul 6, 2003
70,184
Whitechapel said:
Didn't stop SASTA claiming the 21:47 from Goring to Brighton would arrive at 22:26 online, so I left work 30 minutes early to catch that train as the 23:15 was cancelled, meaning the next train wasn't until 23:50. Get to the station and the information board lists one train. The 20:02 arriving at 20:20. Now it doesn't take 20/20 vision (geddit?) to realise that telling people about a train from two hours ago was less than useless. Looked on the Southern site. Just says delayed, no time, no indication of the last stop it was at, nothing. Every station was either 'cancelled', 'no report' or 'delayed' in a seemingly random order.

So I'm now sitting at the station. The last 700 that goes to Shoreham leaves at 22:30 although yesterday that didn't turn up at all (Stagecoach obviously not wanting Southern to hog all the shithouserry). It's 22:15. Do I wait it out for the 22:26 which could be around the corner or in Barnham? Do I go to the bus stop and risk missing the train? I tweet SASTA but I'm still waiting on a reply. What a fat lot of help they are.
Click to expand...

Thank Christ for the 700, that's all I can say. Never previously used it in 30 years living in Brighton but have used it twice in the last week. Took 4 hours to get from Chi to Brighton last night, including hanging around Barnham for ninety minutes with no trains in any direction. Fair enough they had to switch the power off to remove the old ****'s car off the track, but SASTA seemed to be milking it for all it was worth. "There's currently no trains going anywhere"' they kept announcing cheerily. For three hours? REALLY? In the end, had to call daughter out to drive me as far as Shoreham, then picked up a 700 after a wait of no more than 5 minutes. Seriously, would advise anyone using West Coast line to familiarise themselves with the 700 route and timetable. Could save you an expensive taxi ride home. Just take a cheap taxi ride to the nearest 700 stop instead. Job done!
 




Boys 9d

Boys 9d

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2012
1,794
Lancing
Tom Hark said:
Thank Christ for the 700, that's all I can say. Never previously used it in 30 years living in Brighton but have used it twice in the last week. Took 4 hours to get from Chi to Brighton last night, including hanging around Barnham for ninety minutes with no trains in any direction. Fair enough they had to switch the power off to remove the old ****'s car off the track, but SASTA seemed to be milking it for all it was worth. "There's currently no trains going anywhere"' they kept announcing cheerily. For three hours? REALLY? In the end, had to call daughter out to drive me as far as Shoreham, then picked up a 700 after a wait of no more than 5 minutes. Seriously, would advise anyone using West Coast line to familiarise themselves with the 700 route and timetable. Could save you an expensive taxi ride home. Just take a cheap taxi ride to the nearest 700 stop instead. Job done!
Click to expand...

After 7pm there is a flat fare of £2 any distance. I don't think this is valid on the N700.
 


H

Hastings gull

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2013
4,635
Herr Tubthumper said:
it's unbelievable. Utterly unbelievable. I am now of the view I hope the unions drag this sorry state of Grayling supported shit shower into the ground. Then, and only then, can a decent railway begin. We now need an all out indefinite strike.
Click to expand...

Of course you are of that view. You can then view things from Berlin and pontificate accordingly.
 




Tom Hark Preston Park

Tom Hark Preston Park

Will Post For Cash
Jul 6, 2003
70,184
Boys 9d said:
After 7pm there is a flat fare of £2 any distance. I don't think this is valid on the N700.
Click to expand...

Ah, that would explain why the driver only charged me £2 from Shoreham High street to Churchill Square last night. Remember thinking it was surprisingly cheap. Bargain!
 


S

Soulman

New member
Oct 22, 2012
10,966
Sompting
Tom Hark said:
Ah, that would explain why the driver only charged me £2 from Shoreham High street to Churchill Square last night. Remember thinking it was surprisingly cheap. Bargain!
Click to expand...

I use the N700 if I overstay my welcome in Brighton. Very reliable and runs til 3-30 am Thurs til Sun morning, every hour.
 


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