[Politics] Brexit

5ways · May 24, 2016

GoldWithFalmer said:
Blame the likes of David Cameron and Corbin.........if they were true to themselves and us then they would have done so by now...

Yes perhaps. I'm sure there's contingency planning taking place but it doesn't explain why no independent or international organisations have provided an argument for Brexit. Besides surely it is the Out campaign's duty to provide the post-Brexit roadmap that they advocate for. Where is it? What will happen that is positive? Gerald Lyon's, Boris' economic advisor, said that Brexit could be like a Nike Swoosh. Down, then up. That's great, but where's the report that backs this up? Why is he right and the Bank of England wrong?

Or shall we just give up and try to bet on Turkey's inevitable membership - a blunt untruth.

GoldWithFalmer · May 24, 2016

Fascinating programme on BBC 1 right now..........it will only get worse

5ways · May 24, 2016

GT49er said:
Can you find one post saying, 'Yes, I have been so convinced by the remainers' scaremongering, that I'm now going to change my mind and vote 'remain' instead of Brexit'?

GregBrighton? :clap:

GT49er · May 24, 2016

5ways said:
GregBrighton?

If there's one thing we agree on, it's probably GregBrighton's credibility on anything.

Herr Tubthumper · May 24, 2016

cjd said:
It has been about 6 weeks since the brexit poll started.

Can anyone put up a new poll to see if the voting has changed since this mammoth thread of wild accusations and nonsense has been posted....?

PS: I,m still voting for staying in but, if at all possible could Mr. Motormouth (aka HerrTubthumper) just be quiet for a while..?

Charming

GoldWithFalmer · May 24, 2016

5ways said:
Yes perhaps. I'm sure there's contingency planning taking place but it doesn't explain why no independent or international organisations have provided an argument for Brexit. Besides surely it is the Out campaign's duty to provide the post-Brexit roadmap that they advocate for. Where is it? What will happen that is positive? Gerald Lyon's, Boris' economic advisor, said that Brexit could be like a Nike Swoosh. Down, then up. That's great, but where's the report that backs this up? Why is he right and the Bank of England wrong?

Or shall we just give up and try to bet on Turkey's inevitable membership - a blunt untruth.

The Government and leader that gave us a referendum will have to work with the bank of England to show us why they believed in giving us the opportunity to leave in the first place.... somewhere there is the contingency or plans as to what would happen if we left the EU....that and a bit more hard work and negotiation,it will never end....

Bladders · May 24, 2016

5ways said:
GregBrighton?

I doubt he's even old enough to vote

jgmcdee · May 24, 2016

JC Footy Genius said:
Have the OBR, ONS ,HMRC 'cast doubt' (whatever that means) on leaving the EU?

As for the term Independent does that include not receiving substantial funding from the EU?

I hadn't seen this table before so thought I'd take a look to see if I could find any substance behind the numbers.

First off: IMF. I couldn't find a breakdown of their income but their net 2015 administrative expenditure was just north of $1bn. So the EU contribution, whatever it might be, covers around 0.015% of their requirement. Hardly a situation where the IMF could be considered in hock to the EU. Source: http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/ar/2015/eng/pdf/table3.1.pdf

Next: OECD. It turns out that they don't take any funding at all from the EU. Source: http://www.oecd.org/about/budget/member-countries-budget-contributions.htm

I can't say I find the CBI or NFU particularly interesting so skipped them and moved on to the IFS. The table states that the EU contributed €7.4m to the IFS, which is odd because the IFS thinks that the EU contributed 11% of their total income of £7.4m. 11% of the budget is still a large chunk, but nowhere near what is suggested. Source: http://www.ifs.org.uk/uploads/documents/about/Trustees%20report%202014.pdf

At this stage I lost interest. The numbers are so far away from the reality of the situation they aren't worth contemplating.

GT49er · May 24, 2016

jgmcdee said:
At this stage I lost interest. The numbers are so far away from the reality of the situation they aren't worth contemplating.

All numbers are just wild guesses, aimed to support whichever side the producer of such numbers is on.

The facts are simple. Do you want to become a part of a pan Europe super-state, dominated by Germany, and ultimately undemocratic, or do you wish to remain Britiish? There is no middle way, no bit of part of one part with some of the other. Its either or. No flexibility.
Reforming from inside is not an option - it doesn't work, it won't happen. Now, your point is?

JC Footy Genius · May 24, 2016

5ways said:
Yes perhaps. I'm sure there's contingency planning taking place but it doesn't explain why no independent or international organisations have provided an argument for Brexit. Besides surely it is the Out campaign's duty to provide the post-Brexit roadmap that they advocate for. Where is it? What will happen that is positive? Gerald Lyon's, Boris' economic advisor, said that Brexit could be like a Nike Swoosh. Down, then up. That's great, but where's the report that backs this up? Why is he right and the Bank of England wrong?

Or shall we just give up and try to bet on Turkey's inevitable membership - a blunt untruth.

I sense some frustration that people aren't just convinced by weight of numbers of speculative reports predicting we might possibly have growth at a slower rate if we vote to regain our independence.

Perhaps some people note many of these organisations don't have the best interests of the British people at heart, perhaps some detect a level of cynical manipulation for nefarious purposes, perhaps some don't simply take at face value everything governments tell us, perhaps some realise sovereignty doesn't belong to governments but to the people and don't won't it continually diminished, perhaps some value democracy and want as clear & short a route as possible to kick out the people instigating policy and laws, perhaps some people don't need a risk free blueprint which no one could honestly produce anyway realising no path in life is risk free, perhaps some people know we have been lied to and misled on immigration year in year out so want to send a clear unambiguous message that enough is enough, perhaps some resent voting for what they thought was staying in a purely economic trade block last time seeing it change beyond all recognition, perhaps some people think the EU is never going to reform and Ever closer union is inevitable come what may, perhaps some have faith in their country to prosper as an independent nation like the vast majority of nations throughout the world. Just a few reasons that people might have a valid and reasonable opinion at variance with yours that makes Brexit the better option.

Bevendean Hillbilly · May 24, 2016

I work a cross different hospitals and, as far as I can tell, the better educated staff (Doctors, senior Nurses etc.) are mainly innies wheras the porters, domestics and healthcare assistants are mainly outers. Cameron's problem is that there are many many more poorly educated or just plain ignorant voters who are VERY keen to vote out and far far less likely to respond to pollsters. I think, based on speaking to probably hundreds of folks over the past six months there is an out ratio of probably 5 to 1 or more.

Most intriguing vote in 70 years. On a par with labour booting Churchill out in 1945 and going on to found a welfare state.

jgmcdee · May 24, 2016

GT49er said:
Now, your point is?

Utterly lost on you.

GoldWithFalmer · May 24, 2016

I personally think the vote will go remain.......too many people no willing to risk the change only to risk the loss of this country further down the line....

Maldini · May 24, 2016

GoldWithFalmer said:
Fascinating programme on BBC 1 right now..........it will only get worse

Glad I saw your post in time. I read this was going to be on a while ago but didn't know when.

Truly depressing.How can anyone watch that and be happy to accept the changing face of the UK.
That was the best advert for Brexit I've seen in ages.Sadly I see so much of the UK will
mirror what was shown in that programme in years to come.

Maldini · May 24, 2016

Cameron now banging on about more expensive holidays surrounded by cabin crew.You couldn't make it up.Surely even those on Remain are cringing.

GoldWithFalmer · May 24, 2016

Maldini said:
Glad I saw your post in time. I read this was going to be on a while ago but didn't know when.

Truly depressing.How can anyone watch that and be happy to accept the changing face of the UK.
That was the best advert for Brexit I've seen in ages.Sadly I see so much of the UK will
mirror what was shown in that programme in years to come.

Quite sad the end bit.....all trace of English East End way of life gone within 10 years or less....

Your right though

Maldini · May 24, 2016

I read the anti EU comments on Daily Mail online in response to EU articles and always there is a massive support for those comments.If the national opinion reflected that support then Brexit would win hands down but sadly I don't think that will be the case.

GT49er · May 25, 2016

jgmcdee said:
Utterly lost on you.

Oh dear! Prat takes four words out of a post and thinks they can make a witty and pertinent riposte. Guess that's the attitude that will sadly probably vote to remain because they're too gutless to do anything else. That's pitiful, sunshine, just pitiful.
(Apologies to the decent (if misguided) remainers on here, but when one sets themselves up for ridicule, what else can we do?)

Maldini · May 25, 2016

JC Footy Genius said:
I sense some frustration that people aren't just convinced by weight of numbers of speculative reports predicting we might possibly have growth at a slower rate if we vote to regain our independence.

Perhaps some people note many of these organisations don't have the best interests of the British people at heart,

IMF,Obama,etc etc yes I believe they have their own reasons for supporting Remain however there are enough ignorant and scared people in the UK who can't see that.

GoldWithFalmer · May 25, 2016

GT49er said:
Oh dear! Prat takes four words out of a post and thinks they can make a witty and pertinent riposte. Guess that's the attitude that will sadly probably vote to remain because they're too gutless to do anything else. That's pitiful, sunshine, just pitiful.
(Apologies to the decent (if misguided) remainers on here, but when one sets themselves up for ridicule, what else can we do?)

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