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Airbus tells UK employees a vote to leave EU could make it rethink future



C

cunning fergus

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2009
4,747
Machiavelli said:
That the EU has voted to adopt neoliberal policies says everything about the politicians in the EU, and nothing to do with its constitutional structure.
That the UK has voted to adopt neoliberal policies says everything about the politicians in the UK, and nothing to do with its constitutional structure.
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No that's not right.

No one has voted for what the EU has become.........and it certainly isn't controlled by the European Parliament.

This is by design, the electorate is deliberately remote from the executive power. This is why the EU has grown to 28 states and will soon push out its borders to Iran, Iraq and Syria.

Will we get a vote on whether that is what we want?

You know the answer for that don't you........
 




M

Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
16,653
Fiveways
melias shoes said:
Perhaps they can talk to China and India about climate change. It seems to me they are the main instigators when it comes to pollution. No matter how the EU try to control it when you have these major polluters it seems to me until they fully comply it's a waste of time.
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Something else you're profoundly wrong about. The countries that have contributed most to climate change are pretty much identical to those with the highest GDPs.
 


M

Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
16,653
Fiveways
cunning fergus said:
No that's not right.

No one has voted for what the EU has become.........and it certainly isn't controlled by the European Parliament.

This is by design, the electorate is deliberately remote from the executive power. This is why the EU has grown to 28 states and will soon push out its borders to Iran, Iraq and Syria.

Will we get a vote on whether that is what we want?

You know the answer for that don't you........
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You can refer back to this post when those countries join up to the EU.
We heard it here first, oh prophet fergus.
 


C

cunning fergus

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2009
4,747
Machiavelli said:
You can carry on ignoring polls and even votes if you wish, and you can also interpret the results of votes in your own way. I'll choose to ignore the latter.
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I am ignoring the polls, but how can I be ignoring the results of vote?

The result of the vote was No.

You can pretend it was Yes but trust me the evidence was very clearly No.

If the vote was No, then ii don't need a scientific algorithm to confirm that the majority of scots did not want independence?

If you want to believe that a vote No really meant Yes, then maybe you believe Ed Miliband is PM...........I hate to have to break this to you........
 


C

cunning fergus

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2009
4,747
Machiavelli said:
You can refer back to this post when those countries join up to the EU.
We heard it here first, oh prophet fergus.
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The future is already here, who got to vote on the expansion of the EU to Poland, Bulgaria, Romania and the Baltic states?

We never got a vote then, so why do you think will we get one on Turkey?

The evidence indicates we won't.........that's not a prophecy.
 






melias shoes

melias shoes

Well-known member
Oct 14, 2010
4,830
China clearly out in front. The USA will always be there . EU is a collective of nations. Then comes India.
 


pastafarian

pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
Fitzcarraldo said:
That's a very grand way of describing Nigel Farage going and speaking at Tea Party convention.

It's not a daft buzzword. You might not like it, but it is what you are advocating.
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i dont know what else to say.

if you believe forming global partnerships is isolationist then we are at an impasse
 




M

Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
16,653
Fiveways
cunning fergus said:
I am ignoring the polls, but how can I be ignoring the results of vote?
The result of the vote was No.

You can pretend it was Yes but trust me the evidence was very clearly No.

If the vote was No, then ii don't need a scientific algorithm to confirm that the majority of scots did not want independence?

If you want to believe that a vote No really meant Yes, then maybe you believe Ed Miliband is PM...........I hate to have to break this to you........
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The result of the referendum vote was no to independence, not keep the pound. Check out the ballot paper.
 


JC Footy Genius

JC Footy Genius

Bringer of TRUTH
Jun 9, 2015
10,568
melias shoes said:
Perhaps they can talk to China and India about climate change. It seems to me they are the main instigators when it comes to pollution. No matter how the EU try to control it when you have these major polluters it seems to me until they fully comply it's a waste of time.
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Very true. Global problem needs a global solution little europeaners need to think bigger. Perhaps we need a global government yet another layer of bureaucracy and politicians to rule over us while we pay for the privilege.
 






C

cunning fergus

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2009
4,747
Machiavelli said:
The result of the referendum vote was no to independence, not keep the pound. Check out the ballot paper.
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Indeed it was, however if the SNP had felt that binning off the pound for the euro was a vote winner then they would have evidently employed that policy in the referendum debate. They didn't and the currency issue remained a difficult area for the Yes camp to credibly overcome, because those canny scots realised that genuine independence needs an independent currency. These kind of policy decisions are usually made from polling which is when it is useful.

You may want to ignore this perfectly reasonable conclusion, and think that the majority of scots actually want to join the euro, but the evidence from the referendum is very clear........they don't.
 


M

Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
16,653
Fiveways
cunning fergus said:
Indeed it was, however if the SNP had felt that binning off the pound for the euro was a vote winner then they would have evidently employed that policy in the referendum debate. They didn't and the currency issue remained a difficult area for the Yes camp to credibly overcome, because those canny scots realised that genuine independence needs an independent currency. These kind of policy decisions are usually made from polling which is when it is useful.

You may want to ignore this perfectly reasonable conclusion, and think that the majority of scots actually want to join the euro, but the evidence from the referendum is very clear........they don't.
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The evidence from the referendum was that 45% wanted independence, and 55% didn't, up from 30-70 decades ago. Everything else is your speculation according to your anti-EU agenda.
The polls I'm referring to relate to Scottish opinion on the EU, and how Scottish opinion will develop if (little) England votes to disband one Union.
 


L

Lincoln Imp

Well-known member
Feb 2, 2009
5,964
Buzzer said:
No it isn't. Your analogy is completely wrong, in my opinion. You consider buying a new car because the old one is uneconomical and is becoming obsolescent, all cars have a useful life. The choice in the referendum is nothing like that. It's a choice between different political systems. The Remainers can't seem to find anything much positive about staying in when they should be singing its praises from the rooftops, extolling all the positive things about keeping put. It's been a piss-poor campaign from the Remain camp and that survey proves that. The Remain voters don't want to stay in because they think they see a golden future within the EU but because of the scare tactics of the Remain camp.

Negative, negative, negative.
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With respect, I wasn't comparing buying a new car to changing a political system. I was simply - and ineptly it seems - trying to say that the very concept of change is invariably more 'exciting' than the concept of no-change. It's why the best parties are usually on the side of tomorrow's revolution. Corbyn. Obama eight years ago, Trump, Brexit and, most obviously of all, the Scottish Yes campaign. The concept of change can be exciting. It is easy to be frightened by it and easy to be positive about it. Preserving a status quo is much less thrilling. Personally, I hope we stay in the EU because I think, on balance, it will give us, increment by increment, a better future but I'm not going to write that grey sentence on a banner and go marching.

Our beliefs are quieter than yours but it doesn't mean they are negative, negative, negative. Please don't repeat that tired old line - as I think you might be doing in your last sentence - that scare tactics are the sole preserve of the Remain campaign. They're not. In saying that the only reason people will vote 'Remain' is because they have been frightened by scare tactics you are showing no respect at all for everyone who disagrees with you.
 






S

seagullsslimjim

New member
Sep 26, 2003
701
If we exit, could we set up as a tax haven ! Oh we already have - when you take into our overseas interests (sovereignties) we come out at number 1 (above Switzerland, The Cayman Islands - et al !
 


GT49er

GT49er

Well-known member
Feb 1, 2009
46,746
Gloucester
lawros left foot said:
This is my problem with the whole'scaremongering' thing.
If you believe the country will be in a worse state if we leave, which is quite plausible, as no one knows how it would pan out, and you give the electorate the bad news, you are scaremongering..
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What a load of 'inners' bollox! If, as you rightly say, no-one knows how it would pan out.....but then proceed to dole out the 'bad news' (doubtless in the false guise of being 'fact') then what you are doing is in fact.............................scaremongering. Nothing more, nothing less. YOU DON'T KNOW HOW IT IS GOING TO PAN OUT. NO-ONE DOES. YOU SAID SO. Your argument has fallen on its arse. And shat itself.

I don't know how it will pan out either, for that matter. I have, however, ever since I voted 'no' in 1975, been increasingly concerned at the ceaseless and relentless drive to a United States of Europe, eagerly supported by those on the Brussels/Strasbourg gravy train, and all those greedy politicians - conservative, liberal and labour - who look to it as their pension for life once kicked out of office at home.

Leaving might be a step into the unknown, but it is a step I believe wholeheartedly that is worth the risk. Staying in, cw-towing to all Brussels unelected dictates, and becoming a fringe member of a United States of Europe is not, in my opinion, an option - even if the financial sector - which thinks it is the most important thing in the world, and the only consideration that matters - wants to stay in.
 






Westdene Seagull

Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patron
Oct 27, 2003
21,024
The arse end of Hangleton
Machiavelli said:
Remain offers the better option to sort out climate change
Remain offers the better option to sort out big finance
Remain offers the best option to sort out little englanders

Positive, positive, positive.
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You mean like it did when banks across the EU needed bailouts ? Or even whole countries needing bailouts such as Greece, Italy, Portugal, Spain, Cyprus and Ireland ? Yes, being in the EU really helped stopped those countries going into financial meltdown !!!!! As for your pathetic 'Little Englanders' jibe - I thought better of you but I guess pro-EU people always show their true colours eventually.
 


Westdene Seagull

Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patron
Oct 27, 2003
21,024
The arse end of Hangleton
Fitzcarraldo said:
Where is all this positivity that the Leave camp have come up with? So far all I have seen is accusations of scaremongering and 'Project Fear' followed by their own attempt at scaremongering followed by accusations of scaremongering and 'Project Fear'. As far as I can see there is no clear vision of what the country will look like out of the EU. Just a load of shaky promises that nothing will change from before apart from their will be more barbed wire on the cliff tops and a bigger que at the dole office. Not my idea of paradise. Think I'll stick with the Erasmus programme, enshrined workers rights and standing with our fellow Europeans at a time when we should be standing together, not drawing lines on the map. Isolationism has a terrible history and would be a sad route for our country to follow.

I also reckon Andrew Rawnsley is right about this, if you are whinging, you are losing. See the Scottish referendum and Labour's election defeat as recent evidence.
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And yet the Inners can't detail what staying in looks like - how does the aim of greater political and economical integration look in say 5 or 10 years time for the UK ? I'm yet to see any pro-EU person detail this.
 


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