Radicalisation in Brighton

spring hall convert · Mar 31, 2016

wellquickwoody said:
10 out of 10 Sherlock!

But The Guardian conveniently forgot to mention it was committed by a Muslim

Ah, right. I get you.

Have you read the full article out of interest? I don't think it pulls too many punches in terms of their behaviour. I'm left with a sense of an overwhelming sense of different failures for different reasons, not 'oh, what poor boys, weren't they wronged, they were bound to be radicalised.'

To be totally fair, there's quite a bit of stuff coming from the 'not wanting to offend muslims from a PC sensibility.' as a failing.

Of course there's bias (there is in everything you read) but it's attempting to be balanced.

daveinprague · Mar 31, 2016

wellquickwoody said:
And we should believe all that without question should we? From The Guardian? The 'newspaper' that forgot to tell us the Muslim Glaswegian shopkeeper was murdered by another Muslim when it screamed of a 'religously motivated attack'?

It was a religiously motivated attack.
How did the Guardian 'scream' or is that your theatricals?

Pretty pink fairy · Mar 31, 2016

bashlsdir said:
Yes religion. Please can we go back 20 years, the UK and Europe was a much nicer and better place.

TO MANY PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY THAT SHOULDN'T BE
regards
DR

wellquickwoody · Mar 31, 2016

spring hall convert said:
Ah, right. I get you.

Have you read the full article out of interest? I don't think it pulls too many punches in terms of their behaviour. I'm left with a sense of an overwhelming sense of different failures for different reasons, not 'oh, what poor boys, weren't they wronged, they were bound to be radicalised.'

To be totally fair, there's quite a bit of stuff coming from the 'not wanting to offend muslims for a PC sensibility.'

Of course there's bias (there is in everything you read) but it's attempting to be balanced.

I have not fully digested the complete article, but skim read it instead as I am at work. My initial impression was that it was repeatedly offering reasons why the family were let down by society and how they had such a raw deal. It also seemed to labour upon the racism the family felt it had suffered, which is a very different feel that I get from having lived in Brighton and Hove for nearly all of my life.

I will read the full article later, and I hope to be surprised by how balanced a piece The Guardian has published.

Thunder Bolt · Mar 31, 2016

spring hall convert said:
Ah, right. I get you.

Have you read the full article out of interest? I don't think it pulls too many punches in terms of their behaviour. I'm left with a sense of an overwhelming sense of different failures for different reasons, not 'oh, what poor boys, weren't they wronged, they were bound to be radicalised.'

To be totally fair, there's quite a bit of stuff coming from the 'not wanting to offend muslims from a PC sensibility.' as a failing.

Of course there's bias (there is in everything you read) but it's attempting to be balanced.

I don't think it pulled too many punches about their behaviour. It underestimated their crimes.

wellquickwoody · Mar 31, 2016

daveinprague said:
It was a religiously motivated attack.
How did the Guardian 'scream' or is that your theatricals?

Please see posts #20 and #21.

London Irish · Mar 31, 2016

spence said:
Weak argument. Give me the IRA years over the current problems all day long.

As if you would have said that a few years ago

daveinprague · Mar 31, 2016

wellquickwoody said:
Please see posts #20 and #21.

Neither suggest any 'screaming'.

soistes · Mar 31, 2016

wellquickwoody said:
10 out of 10 Sherlock!

But The Guardian conveniently forgot to mention it was committed by a Muslim

With respect, this is nonsense. The Guardian clearly mentioned that it was committed by a Muslim.
"Police have arrested a 32-year-old man on suspicion of murdering the shopkeeper and have confirmed that the arrested man is a Muslim."
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/mar/26/asad-shah-killing-tributes-arrest

Indeed, the only reason that I know that it was committed by a Muslim, and that the victim was from a minority Muslim sect, commonly-persecuted (and mentioned in a subsequent Guardian article
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...death-online-appeal-shopkeeper-family-glasgow), is because I read the Guardian.
"On Sunday, prominent members of Glasgow’s Muslim community called for calm and solidarity after police confirmed that the man arrested in connection with the killing – which is being treated as “religiously prejudiced” – was also a Muslim."

spence · Mar 31, 2016

London Irish said:
As if you would have said that a few years ago

I grew up when the IRA were very active. Didn't really give them a second thought to be honest. Today's terrorism is a different matter. It's here to stay.

daveinprague · Mar 31, 2016

spence said:
I grew up when the IRA were very active. Didn't really give them a second thought to be honest. Today's terrorism is a different matter. It's here to stay.

They were fairly successful with the Grand Hotel. Sort of kept them in my mind.
Youre right though, we are in a different age. We have to adapt to it, whether we like it or not.

Captain Sensible · Mar 31, 2016

An interesting read. I live in Saltdean and moved here in 2011 just after they had left the area. The picture painted in the Guardian is very one sided. It doesn't tell the story of the boys terrorising the local area. From the local people I have met here (and I am only repeating accounts that I have heard and some could be wrong) They told me that shops were smashed, graffiti painted and the public were generally terrorised by the boys. The Father was also a man that had his fair share of confrontations. The family were by all accounts extremely disfunctional. It is my understanding that because of the family's behaviour and lack of action by the police that certain people in the area took the problem into their own hands (by retaliating I assume) .
It's a very sad story but to make out that the poor treatment of the boys from the local inhabitants led to the radicalisation is wrong IMO. From what I heard the boys were regularly threatening to people outside local shops shouting out Allah will reap revenge on you and stuff like that. I can only take what people have told me as truth and it could be wrong. But it seems the lads were radicalised long before they arrived in 2008.
Again I want to say I never met them and can only repeat what multiple people have said about the family on a number of occasions.

wellquickwoody · Mar 31, 2016

soistes said:
With respect, this is nonsense. The Guardian clearly mentioned that it was committed by a Muslim.
"Police have arrested a 32-year-old man on suspicion of murdering the shopkeeper and have confirmed that the arrested man is a Muslim."
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/mar/26/asad-shah-killing-tributes-arrest

Indeed, the only reason that I know that it was committed by a Muslim, and that the victim was from a minority Muslim sect, commonly-persecuted (and mentioned in a subsequent Guardian article
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...death-online-appeal-shopkeeper-family-glasgow), is because I read the Guardian.
"On Sunday, prominent members of Glasgow’s Muslim community called for calm and solidarity after police confirmed that the man arrested in connection with the killing – which is being treated as “religiously prejudiced” – was also a Muslim."

Perhaps you would care to read the initial report by The Guardian...

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-glasgow-tributes-shopkeeper-stabbed-to-death

pastafarian · Mar 31, 2016

how on earth are the council allowed to have a house on their books that doesnt even have a kitchen

spring hall convert · Mar 31, 2016

wellquickwoody said:
I will read the full article later, and I hope to be surprised by how balanced a piece The Guardian has published.

I suspect you won't be convinced but there is at least an attempt.

I was having a conversation this weekend with my 19 year old nephew who has just left a school mentioned in this article three years ago about racism and homophobia in schools. I was saying that I remember widespread racism and approved homophobia and his view was that whilst the messages coming from authority on these subjects have improved (compared to what I remember) realistically, both are still rife.

I can well believe that, my own experience of school (I left a couple of years before 9/11) was that it was pretty racist. Now people have got an excuse......

daveinprague · Mar 31, 2016

wellquickwoody said:
Perhaps you would care to read the initial report by The Guardian...

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-glasgow-tributes-shopkeeper-stabbed-to-death

This is the report that was 'screamed' ??

... are you just saying that or screaming it? Maybe we have different reference points regarding what constitutes 'screaming' ?

wellquickwoody · Mar 31, 2016

daveinprague said:
This is the report that was 'screamed' ??

... are you just saying that or screaming it? Maybe we have different reference points regarding what constitutes 'screaming' ?

The FIRST sentence tells us it was 'religiosly prejudiced'.

My opinion and yours will be different, I am sure we can agree on that? And that mine is correct!

rippleman · Mar 31, 2016

Depends on definition of "radical" doesn't it?

Were it not for the "radicals" in the LGBT movement then we wouldn't be where we are today. Were it not for "radicals" the Trade Union movement and the Labour party would not have been born. "Radicals" throughout history have brought about changes that have benefited society for decades.

When it comes to radicalisation of Muslims though IMO this is just an excuse. Trying to find excuses for their behaviour.

Throughout my life I have associated with radicals from both left and right wing. I have discussed their views and opinions but they have never succeeded in brainwashing me. Neither have those selling their religion on the streets.

I have my own views and opinions and no "radical" is going to brainwash me. Surely it is only simpletons or those that deep down support radical views anyway who can be so easily "converted" into vicious, violent thugs?

Eeyore · Mar 31, 2016

wellquickwoody said:
And we should believe all that without question should we? From The Guardian? The 'newspaper' that forgot to tell us the Muslim Glaswegian shopkeeper was murdered by another Muslim when it screamed of a 'religously motivated attack'?

Well, yes. You obviously haven't seen the accompanying video in which The Guardian obtained police files documenting the incidents. You may also have missed the interview with a member of a far right group who talks of the people they 'sent down ' to see the family.

Incidently, the attack in Glasgow does appear to be religiously motivated. Sectarian on this occasion.

Buzzer · Mar 31, 2016

I can confirm that the bit in that article about being aggressive to passers-by on the Level, whichever of the lads it was and it was on more than one occasion. He was a noxious little potty-mouth and a bully from what I saw.

Regards the racism at school, I can only go from what I have heard from what my children have told me about Varndean but apparently it wasn't a one-way street, these lads were seen as extremely street-wise and were bad news to be around. You took them on at your peril and it wasn't just videos of Jews attacking Palestinians on their phones. There was a full range of ISIS, Al-Qaeda and Chechnyan execution videos on offer.

As far as I can see they have taken the same route as the extremists in Belgium and France. Natural-born bad boys and wrong 'uns who enjoyed drugs, drink and getting into scrapes and see ISIS and terrorism as nothing more than Grand Theft Auto writ large.

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