Northern Ireland

looney · Mar 27, 2016

London Irish said:
The joke of all this is that the Northern Ireland protestants are already being governed by Sinn Fein members of the Stormont executive there. The idea that it would be now such a big step for them to be governed by one of Ireland's two Tory parties Fine Gael and Fianna Fail in Dublin is clearly nonsense. This is actually a conflict that is more or less historically finished and it's amusing to see all the little rightwing nutjobs on here pretend otherwise

Even if your spin was true, you over look the fact that 2 communities have been at war for 30 years and the protestant one neither likes or trusts the other. The feeling is probably mutual.But I suppose 30 year wars and their aftermath kind of slip your mind when pontificating on what is good for other people.

London Irish · Mar 27, 2016

looney said:
Even if your spin was true, you over look the fact that 2 communities have been at war for 30 years and the protestant one neither likes or trusts the other. The feeling is probably mutual.But I suppose 30 year wars and their aftermath kind of slip your mind when pontificating on what is good for other people.

The war is over - only bitter rightwing fascistic little scrotes with their No Surrender BS on repeat play are unhappy about that

The Clamp · Mar 27, 2016

Buzzer said:
That's not what I meant. It was the illusion that because IRA terrorists no longer blow up children in English shopping centres that the troubles have all gone away and the terrorists have all become model citizens. They haven't. They never did.

It's a good job people that posses more power and influence than you think differently or we'd still be sending teenage soldiers with terrible , proof of age moustaches and buzz cuts to get petrol bombed on the Falls road.

Arkwright · Mar 27, 2016

Could the Irish government financially afford to run both NI and the Republic as one.

Buzzer · Mar 27, 2016

The Clamp said:
It's a good job people that posses more power and influence than you think differently or we'd still be sending teenage soldiers with terrible , proof of age moustaches and buzz cuts to get petrol bombed on the Falls road.

Where have I advocated that? I've merely pointed out that elements of the IRA are still active and still murdering people. In my mind, that means that terrorism in Northern Ireland still exists despite what Lord Bracknell says.

I've not stated how it should be dealt with and I've not once made any ridiculous claims against the peace agreement.

Lord Bracknell · Mar 27, 2016

Buzzer said:
Where have I advocated that? I've merely pointed out that elements of the IRA are still active and still murdering people. In my mind, that means that terrorism in Northern Ireland still exists despite what Lord Bracknell says.

I've not stated how it should be dealt with and I've not once made any ridiculous claims against the peace agreement.

I never said that the prospect of terrorism has completely disappeared. What I am claiming is that the old guard has got too old to be active and that any threat will come from a younger generation that is, for the most part, being actively discouraged from going down that path.

The peace process has worked as well. The old political resentments aren't any longer a factor to be taken into account.

dangull · Mar 27, 2016

Buzzer said:
And the majority of Catholics with to remain British. Nothing changes. Ulster is British.

Ulster was not British until it was invaded, then protestants were planted into that area to support English rule in Ireland.

The Clamp · Mar 27, 2016

Buzzer said:
Where have I advocated that? I've merely pointed out that elements of the IRA are still active and still murdering people. In my mind, that means that terrorism in Northern Ireland still exists despite what Lord Bracknell says.

I've not stated how it should be dealt with and I've not once made any ridiculous claims against the peace agreement.

Okay.

El Presidente · Mar 27, 2016

This is a click-bait thread that even Andy Naylor would be proud of!

Buzzer · Mar 27, 2016

Lord Bracknell said:
The peace process has worked as well. The old political resentments aren't any longer a factor to be taken into account.

It's worked more than well. Hundreds if not thousands of lives have been saved but I disagree that the old political resentments aren't a factor anymore. The Carson mural on the Falls Road still shows that the resentments from both sides are there on the surface. The recent murder shows that not only the resentments are there but still many of the old faces and many of the old resentments.

The Peace Accord though was about power-sharing within the UK, sovereignty was never up for discussion and we were given many assurances that this was not handing Northern Ireland over to the Republic by the back door.

London Irish · Mar 27, 2016

Arkwright said:
Could the Irish government financially afford to run both NI and the Republic as one.

The answer in the long term is obviously yes but whether Dublin would want to take on that burden in the short-term is obviously doubtful given they are only just emerging from their own banking crisis.

The Six Counties has been the most economically underperforming part of the UK for many years now, it has very big structural economic problems. Obviously many in Dublin believe this is Britain's mess created on their watch and so it's the UK that needs to sort it out, not the South and its taxpayers. It is claimed that the Six Counties benefits from a net transfer from English/Scots/Welsh taxpayers but how much is disputed, as how you economically measure that it not simple.

While the EU has helped, the removal of the artificial economic barriers the border produces, all kinds of tax, duty and transactional costs, would only be of long term economic benefit to Northern Ireland. It will likely happen at some point in the future (quite possibly my lifetime, more likely my son's) under the auspices of some kind of EU political process.

This is an interesting recent article on the subject and it's fair to both sides as it reports both the unification case and the unionist objections http://www.irishcentral.com/news/po...reland-be-the-best-thing-for-the-economy.html

crasher · Mar 27, 2016

Buzzer said:
Well...if it's down to self-determination then the majority of Ulstermen and women including a majority of Catholics wish to remain British.

Is that true? If so, what's the source for that claim? Genuine question.

Buzzer · Mar 27, 2016

crasher said:
Is that true? If so, what's the source for that claim? Genuine question.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...-catholics-want-to-remain-in-uk-28628245.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21345997

Soulman · Mar 27, 2016

Frutos said:
Should we give the Falklands to Argentina while we're at it?

The only people who should make any kind of decision are the Northern Irish themselves - they should not be seen as ours to 'give' to anyone.

Agreed. Why do those who do not live there poke their noses in. With the Falklands over 99% of ITS inhabitants voted for the Islands to stay British, yet still tits like Corbyn, that dull Morrissey bloke and others stuck their nebs in.
Let the inhabitants of NI have a referendum if they want, or not, their choice.

Eeyore · Mar 27, 2016

Buzzer said:
And the majority of Catholics with to remain British. Nothing changes. Ulster is British.

I'm not sure they regard themselves as British, it is more to do with economic factors and the peace dividend post Good Friday Agreement.

crasher · Mar 27, 2016

Buzzer said:
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...-catholics-want-to-remain-in-uk-28628245.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21345997

Thank you that's interesting.

But those don't bear out what you said. You said that 'a majority of Catholics wish to remain British'. But the BBC story clearly says that 'a substantial 38% of Catholics also favoured remaining within the UK'. So it's not a majority of Catholics.

I guess what we could say is, even among Catholics, only a minority favour a united Ireland (since a quarter are undecided, adding to the 38 per cent who would remain in NI).

JC Footy Genius · Mar 27, 2016

crasher said:
Thank you that's interesting.

But those don't bear out what you said. You said that 'a majority of Catholics wish to remain British'. But the BBC story clearly says that 'a substantial 38% of Catholics also favoured remaining within the UK'. So it's not a majority of Catholics.

I guess what we could say is, even among Catholics, only a minority favour a united Ireland (since a quarter are undecided, adding to the 38 per cent who would remain in NI).

Apparently a more recent poll shows only approximately a quarter of Catholics in NI want a united Ireland in the short/ medium term and 52% favoured remaining in the UK either governed directly from Westminster or through devolved institutions.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...holics-wants-united-ireland-now-34172038.html

Triggaaar · Mar 27, 2016

Hampster Gull said:
Is now the time to move on? Should Northern Ireland be given back to Ireland

Is that a serious point, or are you just saying it to see how many pages the thread gets?

Should the people who live there get a choice, or should they be what you tell them to be?

Phat Baz 68 · Mar 27, 2016

I think the British people of Northern Ireland would have something to say about that, as they consider themselves British, not Irish.

crasher · Mar 27, 2016

JC Footy Genius said:
Apparently a more recent poll shows only approximately a quarter of Catholics in NI want a united Ireland in the short/ medium term and 52% favoured remaining in the UK either governed directly from Westminster or through devolved institutions.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...holics-wants-united-ireland-now-34172038.html

Sorry to keep on about this, but where do you get the 52 per cent figure from? That report doesn't mention it.

It does say this:
'
Among Catholics, 38% said devolution was their preference in the same time frame, followed by a united Ireland (27%) and direct rule (14%).'

I've been on the website of the polling company that did this but the report in question no longer seems to exist. http://banda.ie/Filter/political-social/

Edit - I see, the 52 per cent is adding together those in favour of devolution and those in favour of direct rule

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