So.....are Trident a necessary deterrent?

wellquickwoody · Feb 27, 2016

ThePompousPaladin said:
If i recall correctly the last 2 major wars were started in europe.

Oh, that will be OK then.

'Listen everyone, Uncle Putin lives zillions of miles away outside the EEC so it is obvious that he and his missiles are no threat whatsoever. Everyone OK with that? Good. Right let's start dismantling those sub bases and give Nicola her land back'.

:facepalm:

GoldWithFalmer · Feb 27, 2016

ThePompousPaladin said:
If i recall correctly the last 2 major wars were started in europe.

It could be argued that WW2 had its origins much further east,but i share the point..

Diego Napier · Feb 27, 2016

midnight_rendezvous said:
Again, protect is from what exactly? Crazy Russians and North Koreans? This isn't a Bond movie.

Patently, although droves of simple folk can only think in terms of black and white, good or evil. We are obviously the good guys, Russians/Chinese/anyone who looks different are clearly the evil monsters. They are so bad that they would visit nuclear holocaust on Britain if we didn't have our paltry nuclear deterrent. Their fingers are poised, just itching to press the button should we scrap trident. No matter that their countries economies and futures (and the personal fortunes of their leaders and families and friend and business associates) are inextricably bound to our economy. They are even so evil that they would throw away their lives and those of their families/cohorts just because, well, just because they are so very, very evil.

Thunder Bolt · Feb 27, 2016

glasfryn said:
Kennedy and Kruchev were playing games it would never have happened,

You reckon? Khrushchev was not playing games, believe me.

glasfryn · Feb 27, 2016

I don't see the problem coming from Putin and his mugs, more lilkey to come from the Middle East, now if we are talking nutters thats where they will come from.
Iran seems safe now but there are many others who would love to have those little toys at their disposal

glasfryn · Feb 27, 2016

Thunder Bolt said:
You reckon? Khrushchev was not playing games, believe me.

he put them on display on the ships heading for Cuba laughing and joking about it, and he did not use them did he ,so yes I do reckon
were you actually around then?

EDIT
this did not stop the USA backed "bay of pigs" disaster and from what I remember they did not use nuclear arms then

Thunder Bolt · Feb 27, 2016

glasfryn said:
he put them on display on the ships heading for Cuba laughing and joking about it, and he did not use them did he ,so yes I do reckon
were you actually around then?

Yes.

jackanada · Feb 27, 2016

GoldWithFalmer said:
The spheres of influence spread further than one appreciates with us having a say at that table and that say is independent too.

It's not really independent. Trident is maintained by the Americans in association with Capita (seriously). The launching of the missiles is the responsibility of the captain, but he can't change the targets without American cooperation. So we spend vast sums of money yet are still entirely dependent on the US for our nuclear deterrent.

beorhthelm said:
there is more or less, UK, US and France.

I think NATO still exists.

SweatyMexican · Feb 27, 2016

Can't we all just hold hands and get along?

ThePompousPaladin · Feb 28, 2016

wellquickwoody said:
Oh, that will be OK then.

'Listen everyone, Uncle Putin lives zillions of miles away outside the EEC so it is obvious that he and his missiles are no threat whatsoever. Everyone OK with that? Good. Right let's start dismantling those sub bases and give Nicola her land back'.

Not what i said or meant, just pointing out one of the premises for your argument is false.

For the record i'm personally unsure about complete disarmament, 'defensive' tactical nukes might have a role to play - the type that could prevent an invasion of these fair lands.

That being said i think the chances of us being nuked is probably slightly higher if we do have them than if we don't, if all hell breaks loose between 2 powers that have them, we'd have a higher chance of being nuked just as a matter of course.

darkwolf666 · Feb 28, 2016

Diablo said:
And rely on others to keep us safe ?

Safe from what? A target we can nuke?

Half Time Pies · Feb 28, 2016

darkwolf666 said:
Safe from what? A target we can nuke?

Safe from future unknown threats.

History tells us that in the realm of International Relations the only thing that you can predict with certainty is that the future will be unpredictable! Who knows what threats the UK and it allies might need to deter over the next 5,10,15 or 25 years.

darkwolf666 · Feb 28, 2016

Half Time Pies said:
Safe from future unknown threats.

History tells us that in the realm of International Relations the only thing that you can predict with certainty is that the future will be unpredictable! Who knows what threats the UK and it allies might need to deter over the next 5,10,15 or 25 years.

The problem is the "safety" is created in the knowledge that we can blow everyone up! Now that's safe...?

The Antikythera Mechanism · Feb 28, 2016

glasfryn said:
he put them on display on the ships heading for Cuba laughing and joking about it, and he did not use them did he ,so yes I do reckon
were you actually around then?

EDIT
this did not stop the USA backed "bay of pigs" disaster and from what I remember they did not use nuclear arms then

You, obviously, don't know about this

Vasili Arkhipov - the man who stopped a nuclear war

Half Time Pies · Feb 28, 2016

darkwolf666 said:
The problem is the "safety" is created in the knowledge that we can blow everyone up! Now that's safe...?

Absolutely, because the potential costs of going to war are too great. History has shown that no two major powers with nuclear weapons have ever fought a war against each other.

Take for example India and Pakistan, the fact that both countries have nuclear capabilities has made it impossible for them to fight even a conventional war over Kashmir.

Aveacarlin' · Feb 28, 2016

SweatyMexican said:
Can't we all just hold hands and get along?

Hello Jeremy

glasfryn · Feb 28, 2016

The Antikythera Mechanism said:
You, obviously, don't know about this

Vasili Arkhipov - the man who stopped a nuclear war

so what was the bay of pigs all about, other,than a prod to more sabre rattling, lots of threatening by both sides and then nothing
the only nation to use nuclear war so far as I know have been the USA
Putin has dabbled supposidly but who actually knows.
as I said before the Middle East is the danger god forbid if they ever get them

The Clamp · Feb 28, 2016

If countries like North Korea and China and god forbid, areas such as the middle East have nuclear weapons then we MUST have them. Ludicrous not to. A nuclear free world? Too late pal.

The Antikythera Mechanism · Feb 28, 2016

glasfryn said:
so what was the bay of pigs all about, other,than a prod to more sabre rattling, lots of threatening by both sides and then nothing
the only nation to use nuclear war so far as I know have been the USA
Putin has dabbled supposidly but who actually knows.
as I said before the Middle East is the danger god forbid if they ever get them

My point was that you stated the Cuban missile crisis was Kennedy and Khruschev playing games - it wasn't.

glasfryn · Feb 28, 2016

The Antikythera Mechanism said:
My point was that you stated the Cuban missile crisis was Kennedy and Khruschev playing games - it wasn't.

was there a war then?

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So.....are Trident a necessary deterrent?

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