gregbrighton
New member
The Tory government propaganda media attack dogs are in full flow again. The Prime Minister is a complete cretin if he really thinks this of people who oppose the bombing of Syria.
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Would you vote for bombing ISIS in Syria?
- Thread starter pb21
- Start date
The Tory government propaganda media attack dogs are in full flow again. The Prime Minister is a complete cretin if he really thinks this of people who oppose the bombing of Syria.
Buzzer
Languidly Clinical
- Oct 1, 2006
- 26,121
That comment is almost as crass as Cameron's. There's pros and cons for either side. Only in October the Kurds took Sinjar from ISIL after extremely successful US airstrikes. They can and do work, I have grave reservations about British involvement but I don't think we can sit by and do nothing and I don't believe we are at any greater risk of terrorist attacks by supporting the French and Germans and Yanks.
Re. the comments from Cameron - unnecessary, counter-productive and he's gone down a lot in my estimation. He ought to apologise.
spring hall convert
Well-known member
Voted no and am pleasantly surprised at the overall result so far. Was not expecting that.
If we were actually bothered about removing IS from Syria (which I'm not convinced we are for various reasons) we'd be supporting what's left of Assad's army and the Kurds on the ground. Assad could be dealt with once IS were removed.
This is utterly disgraceful from Cameron. It's not about Syria or IS, it's about his pride, doing favours for Murdoch and getting a life presidency at an arms manufacturer.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ympathiser?CMP=twt_a-politics_b-gdnukpolitics
If we were actually bothered about removing IS from Syria (which I'm not convinced we are for various reasons) we'd be supporting what's left of Assad's army and the Kurds on the ground. Assad could be dealt with once IS were removed.
This is utterly disgraceful from Cameron. It's not about Syria or IS, it's about his pride, doing favours for Murdoch and getting a life presidency at an arms manufacturer.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ympathiser?CMP=twt_a-politics_b-gdnukpolitics
pastafarian
Well-known member
The RAF have a good record in targeting IS in Iraq so far,claiming to have resulted in Zero civilian deaths.
Can someone explain to me how the current RAF strategy of targeting IS in Iraq is going to fundamentally change in targeting IS in Syria that is going to result in thousands upon thousands of civilian deaths.
I havnt heard or read anyone in authority(that makes these decisions) saying the RAF mission/strategy of how they target IS is drastically going to change.
Can someone explain to me how the current RAF strategy of targeting IS in Iraq is going to fundamentally change in targeting IS in Syria that is going to result in thousands upon thousands of civilian deaths.
I havnt heard or read anyone in authority(that makes these decisions) saying the RAF mission/strategy of how they target IS is drastically going to change.
nicko31
Well-known member
spring hall convert
Well-known member
No one is suggesting a political solution to satisfy IS you utter doughnut. It's to try and get the other 4 sides in the civil war to stop fighting each other and fight them.
Jesus Christ.
Bevendean Hillbilly
New member
Also worth remembering that each brimstone missile costs £100,000 and a JDam bomb costs at lest £25,000. The government are very clear on return on investment in every sphere of public life. I'm afraid I want to see a costed plan on exactly how long the bombing will go on, how many missiles and bombs they plan to expend and how many beards they will need to vapourise before we can claim Daesh have been "defeated".
if it's OK for the Tories to demand revenue returns on libraries, playgroups and housing for poor people I think that's a reasonable question to ask.
if it's OK for the Tories to demand revenue returns on libraries, playgroups and housing for poor people I think that's a reasonable question to ask.
spring hall convert
Well-known member
The situations in Syria and Iraq are different. Syria is in the midst of a 5-way civil war at the moment. There's no evidence that bombing is actually making anything better there because there is no coordinated ground effort to do anything with it.
Horton's halftime iceberg
Blooming Marvellous
With so many people out protesting and canvasing their MP's I still live in small hope that this poll may match the vote tomorrow night. If you are in Hove or East Brighton, just send a quick e-mail to Peter or Simon to urge them to change their vote and vote against another clueless war.
peterkylelabour@gmail.com
simon.kirby.mp@parliament.uk
peterkylelabour@gmail.com
simon.kirby.mp@parliament.uk
GT49er
Well-known member
Yes they are, you utter doughnut*. The choice is go to war or go for a political settlement. For a war to be avoided, or ended, there has to be a political settlement that involves all parties. Any agreement we make with anybody is worthless if ISIS just go on killing all those they regard as infidels.
How do you think he's going to help?
* I am merely returning your gratuitous insult. Name calling doesn't add any weight to your argument, you know.
Deportivo Seagull
I should coco
The whole of purpose of air strikes is to tie up ISIS and make it very unpleasant for anyone wishing to join them. It will not solve it.
JC is an idealist which is fine when your a lone voice on the labour left, it (sadly) has no place when you are the leader of the opposition. Sanctions against those involved in the region will not work as there is no consensus to do so. It shows a lack of understanding on his part to actually believe that this would work.
Iraq was not the start of jihad, it actually kicked off during the soviet invasion of Afghanistan (bin laden anyone?) and gathered a pace in the former Yugoslavia. Iraq certainly speeded it up but in reality we would still have reached this point. The collapse of the Arab States in favour of religious States was going to happen eventually, just a matter of when.
If air strike screw up Isis then all well and good.
JC is an idealist which is fine when your a lone voice on the labour left, it (sadly) has no place when you are the leader of the opposition. Sanctions against those involved in the region will not work as there is no consensus to do so. It shows a lack of understanding on his part to actually believe that this would work.
Iraq was not the start of jihad, it actually kicked off during the soviet invasion of Afghanistan (bin laden anyone?) and gathered a pace in the former Yugoslavia. Iraq certainly speeded it up but in reality we would still have reached this point. The collapse of the Arab States in favour of religious States was going to happen eventually, just a matter of when.
If air strike screw up Isis then all well and good.
fat old seagull
New member
As much as I'd like to kick ISIL's arses to kingdom come. I too wonder how we can pull billions out of a hat to fund this thing, whilst running down the NHS, cutting policing and a host of other services.
I find it odd, and hardly imagined that I'd ever consider the unelectable Jeremy Corben coming across brighter than David Cameron..... but to me at the moment, he does.
Horton's halftime iceberg
Blooming Marvellous
He is coming across as a worried man. He should give a free vote to his MP's if he believes he can win the argument, which he can't as bombing has done little so far, needs economic and local solutions.
Attachments
spring hall convert
Well-known member
Who?I repeat, I have heard no one of any gravitas suggest this.
What I do think would be sensible is focusing seriously on getting the other sides to stop killing each other, which would then make a ground war winnable, especially with air support. There's some sense in that position.
Bombing Syria when there is already a 5-way civil war going on is likely to be counter-productive.
We likely have to face the fact that at least in the short term Assad and his army will have to be part of the solution. It's not like it'll be the only murderous regime in the world we'd be supporting.
Horton's halftime iceberg
Blooming Marvellous
Rough estimates of one sortie and not including the possible death of injury of inocent civilians, our military and the stress to all their families. I will be the first to say I was wrong if we someone win this deluded war but it doesn't bode well and is being rushed into by the PM and parliament.
Attachments
So what do you suggest that we DO about ISIS Greg? I am not interested in what we should not do, as that does not change what is happening right now. The western world is under attack from followers of extreme Islam, how can we stop this?
JC Footy Genius
Bringer of TRUTH
- Jun 9, 2015
- 10,568
I doubt we will commit many extra resources to the bombing just shift the majority of our missions from Iraq to Syria.
I'm guessing your average ISIS scumbag would rather the siren voices calling for non military solutions would prevail rather than having to face being hit from the air at any moment by planes or drones.
pastafarian
Well-known member
Before the footy on sat I watched the BBC interviewing people on the Stop The War march,i was astonished to hear people say ISIS should be negotiated with and "why hasnt anyone proposed talking to the terrorists,cause it worked in Northern Ireland"
That sort of thinking is bonkers in my view,but its clearly a viewpoint that is out there
glasfryn
cleaning up cat sick
cameron asking his party not to vote "with a bunch of terrorist sympathisers"
and this from a man who can't even keep our borders safe.
and this from a man who can't even keep our borders safe.
Albumen
Don't wait for me!
David the NSC public have spoken. 62% say no.