Autumn statement today ...... hero’s or villains?

darkwolf666 · Nov 25, 2015

JC Footy Genius said:
About the same number as were available in 2003. Recorded crime has fallen significantly since then as it did last year so probably a bit more scope for further cuts.

This is debatable as figures vary depending on who provides the figures, the Crime Survey for England & Wales showed a 7% reduction, while the Police Recorded Crime figures showed an increase of 3%. It should be noted that the CSEW is only generated as an average dip sample, where a certain number of the public are spoken to, with this being averaged out over the population as a whole.

Also if crime is taken as a whole, in other words putting all offences into the pot, then possibly there is a decrease. However when looking at individual crime types then there are significant increases, i.e. offences involving knives and sharp instruments, sexual offences and fraud. Robbery and other acquisitive crime types did see a reduction.

Guess, as always it just depends which side of the fence you sit!

Seagull58 · Nov 25, 2015

DataPoint said:
Who are the hero’s and who the villains?

The apostrophe is the villain. It shouldn't be there.

Papa Lazarou · Nov 25, 2015

I think people who are employed on a contract basis, via a Public Service Company, usually via their own Limited Company might not be happy following today's statement.

I'm in this group, and if the changes that were proposed recently ARE in the statement it will effectively kill the contract market overnight.

Seagull58 · Nov 25, 2015

glasfryn said:
nearly 12b in overseas aid not to be touched
help the people at home first

This is one of my main bugbears. He should take an axe to overseas aid.

JC Footy Genius · Nov 25, 2015

edna krabappel said:
Couldn't agree more the live within your means theory. It's absolutely necessary for public bodies to save money where they can, and to be as efficient as possible. No issue with that whatsoever: why anybody would argue otherwise is just silly.

But your statistics are plain wrong. To suggest numbers of front line officers is the same now as it was in 2003 is, with respect, total and utter bollocks. The Government (whichever party it happens to be at the time) can bang on about preserving numbers, and the local constabularies may choose to toe the party line when they speak about it, but I can tell you with absolute confidence that there are fewer front line officers now than there have been in a long time. And that line will get thinner still.

It's just the way it is: we'll crack on. But when the media make a big deal out of stories like "police won't bother with minor crime in future"...well that's life, dry your eyes, Daily Mail readers, remember: we're just "living within our means" like everyone else.

I was only basing my opinion on Home Office/BBC stats. The tasking of the Police may have changed leading to shortages in front line response but according to these figures the numbers of Police are roughly the same as 2003. This suggests poor allocation of personnel is the issue.

beorhthelm · Nov 25, 2015

glasfryn said:
nearly 12b in overseas aid not to be touched
help the people at home first

i think if the left promised not to start a chorus of "look at the nasty party, taking aid from starving Africans", they'd cut it in half. it was a promise made to help their image and they've blindly stuck to it knowing as would receive a massive negative reaction.

Machiavelli · Nov 25, 2015

Bozza said:
Me?

I think it's perverse how we perceive the price of anything going UP as generally a bad thing until it comes to property when a lot of people (but not all, clearly) obsess about the value of their home increasing.

I have little interest in it, having just bought in the South-East again, after a long period in Somerset. Where I live is my home, is likely to be for some time and I don't care what it may or may not be worth. I never check local property valuations, nor the asking prices of similar houses that come to market.

As with many of your posts, I agree with every word of this. We need homes to live in, as opposed to assets to play around with.
I can only say that you have been pretty consistent in your support for Osborne, and his policies (easing demand, restricting supply) have led to further property price inflation. As my previous post suggested, in doing this, he's been pretty much of a piece with all chancellors over the past 35 years. So much for the 'property-owning democracy', as the proportion owning property has gone into the reverse (and, unless there's a drastic policy shift, this will continue).
Ed Miliband was on to something targeting a mass building programme (although he didn't communicate this well enough, nor did his policy go far enough). This is something Corbyn ought to forward, but he's too hopeless to do so.

edna krabappel · Nov 25, 2015

JC Footy Genius said:
View attachment 70202

I was only basing my opinion on Home Office/BBC stats. The tasking of the Police may have changed leading to shortages in front line response but according to these figures the numbers of Police are roughly the same as 2003. This suggests poor allocation of personnel is the issue.

Out of interest, I'd like to ask something. Ambulance services are monitored on response times to 999 calls. The police aren't, at least not to the same degree.

Say you live in a medium sized town in West Sussex, and you wake up at 3am to find two burglars in your house. Assuming you dial 999, how long is an acceptable response time to get police round to your house do you reckon?

Genuine question. Interested to see if expectations & reality are roughly on a par, which would suggest things are working fine.

How many minutes?

Machiavelli · Nov 25, 2015

Seagull58 said:
This is one of my main bugbears. He should take an axe to overseas aid.

Haven't recent events reinforced the importance of overseas aid (the government has recognised this by returning funding to World Service)? You pull out of 'soft power', and you're left with 'hard power'. And 'hard power' hasn't exactly had a resounding success over the past decade and a half.

Herr Tubthumper · Nov 25, 2015

glasfryn said:
nearly 12b in overseas aid not to be touched
help the people at home first

Would the nasty party take aid from starving Africans?

JC Footy Genius · Nov 25, 2015

darkwolf666 said:
This is debatable as figures vary depending on who provides the figures, the Crime Survey for England & Wales showed a 7% reduction, while the Police Recorded Crime figures showed an increase of 3%. It should be noted that the CSEW is only generated as an average dip sample, where a certain number of the public are spoken to, with this being averaged out over the population as a whole.

Also if crime is taken as a whole, in other words putting all offences into the pot, then possibly there is a decrease. However when looking at individual crime types then there are significant increases, i.e. offences involving knives and sharp instruments, sexual offences and fraud. Robbery and other acquisitive crime types did see a reduction.

Guess, as always it just depends which side of the fence you sit!

There has undoubtedly been an ongoing downward trend in levels of Crime over many years not only in this country but many others despite varied levels of policing numbers and criminal justice strategies. Many differing theories as to why this is, probably a combination of factors including rising prosperity, improved security technology, better policing etc etc

But as you say dam lies and statistics can be manipulated to suit arguments on both sides of the fence.

JC Footy Genius · Nov 25, 2015

edna krabappel said:
Out of interest, I'd like to ask something. Ambulance services are monitored on response times to 999 calls. The police aren't, at least not to the same degree.

Say you live in a medium sized town in West Sussex, and you wake up at 3am to find two burglars in your house. Assuming you dial 999, how long is an acceptable response time to get police round to your house do you reckon?

Genuine question. Interested to see if expectations & reality are roughly on a par, which would suggest things are working fine.

How many minutes?

10 to 15 minutes?

mikeyjh · Nov 25, 2015

JC Footy Genius said:
10 to 15 minutes?

The response time to the latest burglary at my house in Shoreham, at approximately 11pm was 90 mins, just saying..... The investigation slowly fizzled out over the following few months, I think we all know why.

mikeyjh · Nov 25, 2015

Herr Tubthumper said:
Would the nasty party take aid from starving Africans?

Well, previous tory governments have 'stuck' to the spending commitment for overseas aid but have incorporated the running costs of ODA/DFID in to that figure, effectively dramatically reducing the amount that is delivered in aid. I have no idea if the current nasties have done this, but if I was a betting man.... So yes, they would.

Mr Bridger · Nov 25, 2015

mikeyjh said:
The response time to the latest burglary at my house in Shoreham, at approximately 11pm was 90 mins, just saying..... The investigation slowly fizzled out over the following few months, I think we all know why.

Insurance job?

JC Footy Genius · Nov 25, 2015

mikeyjh said:
The response time to the latest burglary at my house in Shoreham, at approximately 11pm was 90 mins, just saying..... The investigation slowly fizzled out over the following few months, I think we all know why.

I'm guessing you came home to find this which is a bit different to the 'you wake up at 3am to find two burglars in your house' scenario. When something like that happens it is understandable that we all want an immediate response with a satisfactory outcome but having the Police turn up a bit quicker is unlikely to have changed the outcome.

Machiavelli · Nov 25, 2015

mikeyjh said:
Well, previous tory governments have 'stuck' to the spending commitment for overseas aid but have incorporated the running costs of ODA/DFID in to that figure, effectively dramatically reducing the amount that is delivered in aid. I have no idea if the current nasties have done this, but if I was a betting man.... So yes, they would.

Like these two posts.
ps are your lot going up this year?

Bozza · Nov 25, 2015

Papa Lazarou said:
I think people who are employed on a contract basis, via a Public Service Company, usually via their own Limited Company might not be happy following today's statement.

I'm in this group, and if the changes that were proposed recently ARE in the statement it will effectively kill the contract market overnight.

Again, I'm speaking from a position of limited knowledge, but no one has ever been able to convince me that the whole contract thing is anything other than one big taxation avoidance scam and in the current environment aren't we all interested in people paying a fair and just amount of tax (as opposed, for example, to a salary that is so low as to be untaxable and then additional dividends which are more tax efficient)?

edna krabappel · Nov 25, 2015

JC Footy Genius said:
I'm guessing you came home to find this which is a bit different to the 'you wake up at 3am to find two burglars in your house' scenario. When something like that happens it is understandable that we all want an immediate response with a satisfactory outcome but having the Police turn up a bit quicker is unlikely to have changed the outcome.

This. If the burglary is something that's happened while you're out and could have been at any point in the preceding eight hours, with the perpetrators long gone, the police are never going to race round. I believe the policy is that they get responded to within an hour (might be two, not sure) in scenarios like that. If you come home to find them in your house, of course it's a different position.

edna krabappel · Nov 25, 2015

JC Footy Genius said:
10 to 15 minutes?

Cheers

Just interested to see expectations, that's all.

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