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CORBYN, McDONNELL AND LIVINGSTONE.



H

Hampster Gull

New member
Dec 22, 2010
13,462
GT49er said:
And the members then vote in a secret ballot, which the Union leaders have no idea who voted for who. How much notice do you think the members take?
Well, OK, fair enough, you probably think they're all brainwashed, but you'd be surprised, I'm sure, at how many Union members don't do as they're 'advised'.
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I clearly don't think they're brainwashed! I have alot of experience of those at the top of unions and know that they do influence, indeed why write otherise (at their unions expense when most struggle with money)? Many will ignore, many wont
 










GT49er

GT49er

Well-known member
Feb 1, 2009
46,755
Gloucester
Hampster Gull said:
I clearly don't think they're brainwashed! I have alot of experience of those at the top of unions and know that they do influence, indeed why write otherise (at their unions expense when most struggle with money)? Many will ignore, many wont
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Yeh, sorry - went off on the wrong track there with the thinking they're brainwashed bit. But seriously question how much real influence Trade Union leaders have over their members now.
 




jakarta

jakarta

Well-known member
May 25, 2007
15,632
Sullington
GT49er said:
So, come on then. Tell us all. Just how are conservative candidates more democratically selected? Giving equal value to all candidates - as in "either Eton or Harrow, or Oxford or Cambridge, will do" - is not necessarily democracy!
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I'm not a Tory Party Member so have no knowledge on how they are originally selected.

My MP was clearly dropped into a rock solid Tory seat (Arundel & South Downs) that even as an openly gay man he couldn't lose!

What I am, however, is a Democrat and think that the only people that should remove sitting MPs are their voters and not by being de-selected by their Party.

And yes that is exactly what the Tories did with Howard Flight in this constituency and it was equally wrong.
 


GT49er

GT49er

Well-known member
Feb 1, 2009
46,755
Gloucester
Soulman said:
Labour set for bloody nose at Oldham ballot box. Probably just scaremongering we shall see.
http://www.sunnation.co.uk/labour-set-for-bloody-nose-at-oldham-ballot-box/
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Funny that - The Sun suggesting a bloody nose for Labour if UKIP win Oldham. Of course, it won't be any sort of a bloody nose for the Tories if they can't win back a seat from Labour-in-disarray, will it? Or any sort of bloody nose for Cameron if the electorate suspect that his renegotiations with eh EU will turn out to be nothing more than a bit of waffling............

Sorry, forgot for a moment that The Sun was all about impartial journalism. Sorry - did I just write 'journalism' in the same sentence as ;The Sun'? :facepalm:
 


Bevendean Hillbilly

Bevendean Hillbilly

New member
Sep 4, 2006
12,805
Nestling in green nowhere
I can't think of a more open goal than the one presented by the Tories at the moment...and what do labour do? Another Michael foot moment.
 






GT49er

GT49er

Well-known member
Feb 1, 2009
46,755
Gloucester
jakarta said:
I'm not a Tory Party Member so have no knowledge on how they are originally selected.

My MP was clearly dropped into a rock solid Tory seat (Arundel & South Downs) that even as an openly gay man he couldn't lose!

What I am, however, is a Democrat and think that the only people that should remove sitting MPs are their voters and not by being de-selected by their Party.

And yes that is exactly what the Tories did with Howard Flight in this constituency and it was equally wrong.
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That would be Howard Flight, from Magdalene College, Cambridge then, would it?!
 


S

Soulman

New member
Oct 22, 2012
10,966
Sompting
GT49er said:
Funny that - The Sun suggesting a bloody nose for Labour if UKIP win Oldham. Of course, it won't be any sort of a bloody nose for the Tories if they can't win back a seat from Labour-in-disarray, will it? Or any sort of bloody nose for Cameron if the electorate suspect that his renegotiations with eh EU will turn out to be nothing more than a bit of waffling............

Sorry, forgot for a moment that The Sun was all about impartial journalism. Sorry - did I just write 'journalism' in the same sentence as ;The Sun'? :facepalm:
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Sorry about the source, as for your continual bringing the Tories failings into a thread about the 3 Labour muskateers, the Tories have no real competition whilst this tit is leader of the opposition. A genuine contender who gets the support of those disillusioned with the policies of this government would be nice, then the Tory failings can be dealt with, at the moment the voters must be gutted there is no competition, no contest.
 




Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,599
The Fatherland
jakarta said:
I'm not a Tory Party Member so have no knowledge on how they are originally selected.

My MP was clearly dropped into a rock solid Tory seat (Arundel & South Downs) that even as an openly gay man he couldn't lose!

What I am, however, is a Democrat and think that the only people that should remove sitting MPs are their voters and not by being de-selected by their Party.

And yes that is exactly what the Tories did with Howard Flight in this constituency and it was equally wrong.
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I totally agree. It's totally and absolutely up to the voters. They can vote for anyone they want. Equally, we the Labour Party can vote for who we want to represent us. Just because we might choose to change who represents us, or deselect as some might say, it doesn't mean the deselected person can't stand again. If the deselected person is the best person then surely they'll win again; cream rises to the top and all that.
 


jakarta

jakarta

Well-known member
May 25, 2007
15,632
Sullington
Herr Tubthumper said:
I totally agree. It's totally and absolutely up to the voters. They can vote for anyone they want. Equally, we the Labour Party can vote for who we want to represent us. Just because we might choose someone different to represent us, or deselect as some might say, it doesn't mean the deselected person can't stand again.
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You're my Bessie mate in disguise Herr T... :kiss:

I actually admire Corbyn, he stands for a historical part of the Labour movement, I just don't think that they will be an effective Opposition which is what they have to be (for all our sakes Left & Right) for the next four years.
 


GT49er

GT49er

Well-known member
Feb 1, 2009
46,755
Gloucester
Soulman said:
Sorry about the source, as for your continual bringing the Tories failings into a thread about the 3 Labour muskateers, the Tories have no real competition whilst this tit is leader of the opposition. A genuine contender who gets the support of those disillusioned with the policies of this government would be nice, then the Tory failings can be dealt with, at the moment the voters must be gutted there is no competition, no contest.
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A UKIP success at Oldham would be an equal slap in the face for BOTH the main parties, make no bones about that.
Clearly, the Blairite (Tory-Lite) Labour were not providing the Tories with any real opposition. How things work out with Labour with Corbyn as leader remains to be seen; he will not be Prime Minister, I'm sure (he won't still be the leader in 2015).What Labour will look like, I don't know - nor if it will appeal to voters. But the selection of Corbyn as Labour leader came very much from a left field (in more ways than one!) perspective, and the vitriol and invective poured out by the establishment and its chums in the press indicate just how alarmed they are. Not at the prospect of JC becoming PM, but at the clear and unequivocal sign that the electorate is p****d off with the establishment, and becoming more and more likely to vote for anything against it; probably not Corbyn, but something (no idea what yet - although UKIP is still a possibility I guess) equally disturbing to their self-serving status quo.
 




Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,599
The Fatherland
jakarta said:
You're my Bessie mate in disguise Herr T... :kiss:

I actually admire Corbyn, he stands for a historical part of the Labour movement, I just don't think that they will be an effective Opposition which is what they have to be (for all our sakes Left & Right) for the next four years.
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I'm pleased you can feel my love :thumbsup:

I think it's way to early to judge Corbyn's Labour. It's a radical change of direction and philosophy and there will be some pain and bloodshed. I'd be more worried if there wasn't. The party will take a while to settle. Time will tell.
 


S

Soulman

New member
Oct 22, 2012
10,966
Sompting
GT49er said:
A UKIP success at Oldham would be an equal slap in the face for BOTH the main parties, make no bones about that.
Clearly, the Blairite (Tory-Lite) Labour were not providing the Tories with any real opposition. How things work out with Labour with Corbyn as leader remains to be seen; he will not be Prime Minister, I'm sure (he won't still be the leader in 2015).What Labour will look like, I don't know - nor if it will appeal to voters. But the selection of Corbyn as Labour leader came very much from a left field (in more ways than one!) perspective, and the vitriol and invective poured out by the establishment and its chums in the press indicate just how alarmed they are. Not at the prospect of JC becoming PM, but at the clear and unequivocal sign that the electorate is p****d off with the establishment, and becoming more and more likely to vote for anything against it; probably not Corbyn, but something (no idea what yet - although UKIP is still a possibility I guess) equally disturbing to their self-serving status quo.
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I don't think UKIP stand much chance of winning sadly, but to say it would be "an equal slap in the face for BOTH the main parties" is confusing, this is Oldham we are talking about, a northern safe Labour seat with a 14,000+ majority..... i think the slap in the face for one party only.
 


glasfryn

glasfryn

cleaning up cat sick
Nov 29, 2005
20,261
somewhere in Eastbourne
jakarta said:
You're my Bessie mate in disguise Herr T... :kiss:

I actually admire Corbyn, he stands for a historical part of the Labour movement, I just don't think that they will be an effective Opposition which is what they have to be (for all our sakes Left & Right) for the next four years.
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so this is why all the tory boys are panicking is it
constantly talking about JC .........deflecting from the shite they are now in
 


GT49er

GT49er

Well-known member
Feb 1, 2009
46,755
Gloucester
Herr Tubthumper said:
I totally agree. It's totally and absolutely up to the voters.
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That's the trouble. It isn't really, is it? They can vote for a candidate, certainly, but it will be a candidate who is standing for a party, so what they're really voting for is a package, the contents of which they have no control over really.
Party 1 offers policies A, B and C. Hmm - I like B and C, but don't agree with A.
Party 2 offers policies A, B (the same) and D. Don't want A, like B (as before) and quite like D.
So which party do I vote for? Either way I'm voting for policy A, which I fundamentally don't agree with.
 
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GT49er

GT49er

Well-known member
Feb 1, 2009
46,755
Gloucester
Soulman said:
I don't think UKIP stand much chance of winning sadly, but to say it would be "an equal slap in the face for BOTH the main parties" is confusing, this is Oldham we are talking about, a northern safe Labour seat with a 14,000+ majority..... i think the slap in the face for one party only.
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No, I think "Oh gawd, we can't even win a seat off Corbyn's Labour in a by election" would be a big blow to the Tories. Not that they wouldn't try to put a spin on it, of course.............
 


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