Shootings and explosion in Paris!

Commander · Nov 14, 2015

BadFish said:
Religion has little to do with this stuff. If such people weren't using it as an excuse for their evil then they would find another one. Islam and Christianity is neither good or evil or anywhere in-between they are simply belief systems. The good or evil comes from the people who follow them, they are the ones who decide what those belief systems mean to them.

I don't think I agree with this. If these people weren't indoctrinated by ridiculous make-believe stories, then they wouldn't be doing this. You can dress it up all you like, but it IS about religion.

People aren't using it as an excuse for their evil, they have been made evil by people who interpret religion in such a way.

melias shoes · Nov 14, 2015

larus said:
We should not be surprised by these attacks. The UK has been on a high state of alert for some time now; so, it's happened in France, but this could so easily have been here. Be under no illusion, this type of attack WILL happen here in the future. It's impossible to prevent without becoming a police state.

There's a myriad of cause and effects here. Whatever one person says, theere will be another with an opposing view. The reality is, it's layers of issues caused by decades or even centuries of religion/conflict.

So, what's the solution? We can't intern all immigrants as this compounds the problem. We also don't want to stop immigration/emmigration as we pride ourselves on our tolerance and diversity in this country.

However, the clearly is a problem with some Islamic "teaching" (I use that word but it's probably not what happens in some cases). Islam is a peaceful religion, as is Christianity. However, it's possible to twist the words in the Koran/Bible for evil purposes. From what I've heard (media reports etc.), the muslim community are loathe to report this type of activity to the police/authorities and close ranks. These community 'leaders' are therefore complicit in the proliferation of exteme teachings.

We need to be able to deport those responsible for inciting religious extremism to enable the security forces to protect the citizens of this country. Those who wish to live in this country need to accept it is predominately a Christian country and we don't want sharia law here. Tolerance works both ways; too many take offence if we try to stand up for the rights of the majority as well as the minority. The muslim community has to engage fully with the authorities, or accept the right of the authorities to act in the interests of the population at large. If that means that some 'innocents' get exported by mistake, I can live with that outcome,

This is not racism; this is religoion, or should I say, the abuse of religion.

Great post.

mikeyjh · Nov 14, 2015

GT49er said:
Oh grow up! It's horrible, as were Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Unfortunately it just needs to be done. Perhaps you'd rather just talk nicely to them? I'm sure they'll just say, "Oops, sorry, we didn't mean it - it was just supposed to be a bit of a laugh."

Let's say we 'nuke' these countries, parking the moral question about that for a second. Then what do you think well happen?

BadFish · Nov 14, 2015

Commander said:
I don't think I agree with this. If these people weren't indoctrinated by ridiculous make-believe stories, then they wouldn't be doing this. You can dress it up all you like, but it IS about religion.

People aren't using it as an excuse for their evil, they have been made evil by people who interpret religion in such a way.

I think there is a long debate to be had about this, but i don't think this is the time or place. Apologies for bringing up this concept its not really the time or place.

Nibble · Nov 14, 2015

Another thread moved because of right wing abuse. When are the mods going to grow some balls and ban these idiots permanently?

El Presidente · Nov 14, 2015

Nibble said:
Another thread moved because of right wing abuse. When are the mods going to grow some balls and ban these idiots permanently?

It wasn't moved for right wing or left wing abuse. I'm not interested in the petty politics of it all. A polite request was made to stay on topic and immediately ignored.

120 people have died, they are not returning to their loved ones today or ever again.

I thought NSC would reflect our collective sympathy, solidarity and support for the poor people of Paris.

I was wrong, and this thread is the most embarrassing thing I've read in the best part of 20 years on the board. It does few people any credit sadly.

Berty23 · Nov 14, 2015

People saying close the borders to refugees might like to consider that they are running from people like those in Paris.

Wozza · Nov 14, 2015

GT49er said:
Post is looking a bit prattish now ...............

In what way?

JC Footy Genius · Nov 14, 2015

BadFish said:
Religion has little to do with this stuff. If such people weren't using it as an excuse for their evil then they would find another one. Islam and Christianity is neither good or evil or anywhere in-between they are simply belief systems. The good or evil comes from the people who follow them, they are the ones who decide what those belief systems mean to them and how they are going to use them in their life.

Religious indoctrination leading to divine command theory is a uniquely pernicious and dangerous concept.

To repeat a well worn mantra ... "Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."

cunning fergus · Nov 14, 2015

Berty23 said:
People saying close the borders to refugees might like to consider that they are running from people like those in Paris.

The problem is that if everyone runs away from people like those in Paris, they won't stop.

It's still a fact today's as it has been for thousands of years that sometimes violence is required to address violence, yesterday's events ended because violence was met with violence.

In today's world where our media is dripping wet with sentimentality this dynamic is so far removed from its narrative many people are now blind to this unpalatable reality.

Running away from violence won't ever stop violence...........given armistice day was only a few days ago, this country should understand this reality more than most.

TWOCHOICEStom · Nov 14, 2015

A bloody rock concert of all places.... These people don't want revenge, they want chaos.

BadFish · Nov 14, 2015

JC Footy Genius said:
Religious indoctrination leading to divine command theory is a uniquely pernicious and dangerous concept.

To repeat a well worn mantra ... "Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."

I am not sure you need religion, it helps but it can certainly be done without it. Fear, misinformation and mistrust are a decent substitute.

goldstone · Nov 14, 2015

Jihadi John ... why did he have British citizenship. Because his parents did? Why did we give his parents citizenship? They came over from Kuwait apparently. Why do we give British citizenship to anyone from Kuwait. Makes absolutely no sense and comes back to bite us in the bum.

Wilko · Nov 14, 2015

BadFish said:
Religion has little to do with this stuff. If such people weren't using it as an excuse for their evil then they would find another one. Islam and Christianity is neither good or evil or anywhere in-between they are simply belief systems. The good or evil comes from the people who follow them, they are the ones who decide what those belief systems mean to them and how they are going to use them in their life.

I am sick to death of people saying it has nothing to do with religion, once again the terrorists cry before the massacres was 'god is Great'. Let us not pretend anymore that this has nothing to do with religion, it has and we can all see it.

Wilko · Nov 14, 2015

El Presidente said:
It wasn't moved for right wing or left wing abuse. I'm not interested in the petty politics of it all. A polite request was made to stay on topic and immediately ignored.

120 people have died, they are not returning to their loved ones today or ever again.

I thought NSC would reflect our collective sympathy, solidarity and support for the poor people of Paris.

I was wrong, and this thread is the most embarrassing thing I've read in the best part of 20 years on the board. It does few people any credit sadly.

I understand what you are saying El Pres but remember that people are shocked and upset by the events and of course emotions and reactions are all over the place. I am sure I speak for all that we are all collectively sympathetic. It is human nature however to start to speculate on how to stop the violence and unfortunately emotions spill over in times like this.

I am sure many posters (myself included) and typing away frantically in a state of shock and anger with the TV on in the background without time to full digest the situation. It is a sad day but I do not think you can help the outburst of feeling on the issue.

wellquickwoody · Nov 14, 2015

Surrey_Albion said:
actually I think you'll find American drones alone have killed more women,children and innocent people than isis. what we must remember is this is a MINORITY, the MAJORITY of Islamic people need to speak out against these evil nutnuts

No doubt they will be speaking out right now, I did not hear them nearly enough in the past few months.

BadFish · Nov 14, 2015

Wilko said:
I am sick to death of people saying it has nothing to do with religion, once again the terrorists cry before the massacres was 'god is Great'. Let us not pretend anymore that this has nothing to do with religion, it has and we can all see it.

People need to take personal responsibility for their actions rather than claiming their imaginary friend in the sky told them to do it. Millions of people around the world believe in the same god as these *******s but manage not to go around killing people in his name. People are responsible for this atrocity and people need to take responsibility for it not a belief system.

Commander · Nov 14, 2015

BadFish said:
I think there is a long debate to be had about this, but i don't think this is the time or place. Apologies for bringing up this concept its not really the time or place.

Yep, you're probably right.

cloud · Nov 14, 2015

wellquickwoody said:
No doubt they will be speaking out right now, I did not hear them nearly enough in the past few months.

But they won't speak out. Islam delegates its authority locally, rather than heaving a Head. Any disagreements are determined by Shari'ah law, which varies from country to country.

El Presidente · Nov 14, 2015

Wilko said:
I understand what you are saying El Pres but remember that people are shocked and upset by the events and of course emotions and reactions are all over the place. I am sure I speak for all that we are all collectively sympathetic. It is human nature however to start to speculate on how to stop the violence and unfortunately emotions spill over in times like this.

I am sure many posters (myself included) and typing away frantically in a state of shock and anger with the TV on in the background without time to full digest the situation. It is a sad day but I do not think you can help the outburst of feeling on the issue.

People are free to write what they want about ISIS, but the thread became another insult trading one between individuals.

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