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Uh_huh_him

Uh_huh_him

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2011
10,667
Tony Meolas Loan Spell said:
What Labour need to do is find a John Smith type who basically made them electable again after Foot and Kinnock. Of course it would help if they don't have a heart attack and allow a young warmonger to take over.
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To be honest I seem to remember John Smith as being a long way behind in the polls during his tenure.

I clearly remember the press coverage after his death and being genuinely surprised that the media started referring to him as a potential prime minister and a strong parliamentarian.

I have always felt that John Smith's death and the related press coverage in the period after, changed the electorate's perception of the labour party.
 




Tony Meolas Loan Spell

Tony Meolas Loan Spell

Slut Faced Whores
Jul 15, 2004
18,067
Vamanos Pest
Uh_huh_him said:
To be honest I seem to remember John Smith as being a long way behind in the polls during his tenure.

I clearly remember the press coverage after his death and being genuinely surprised that the media started referring to him as a potential prime minister and a strong parliamentarian.

I have always felt that John Smith's death and the related press coverage in the period after, changed the electorate's perception of the labour party.
Click to expand...

He was closing the gap, probably also helped that people were getting fed up of Majors "tory sleaze" (ironic because the champagne socialism that followed was rife with it) and the Tory infighting - leadership contests like John Redwood etc.

John Smith was an honest, straight talking politician, a refreshing change at the time. Not quite as left as Corbyn but a "reformer" of the Labour party, making people sit up and take notice, esp the so called "middle England".

I think at the time that he would have won regardless, even if it was as much as the Tories "losing" than Labour winning.
 


glasfryn

glasfryn

cleaning up cat sick
Nov 29, 2005
20,261
somewhere in Eastbourne
Tony Meolas Loan Spell said:
He was closing the gap, probably also helped that people were getting fed up of Majors "tory sleaze" (ironic because the champagne socialism that followed was rife with it) and the Tory infighting - leadership contests like John Redwood etc.

John Smith was an honest, straight talking politician, a refreshing change at the time. Not quite as left as Corbyn but a "reformer" of the Labour party, making people sit up and take notice, esp the so called "middle England".

I think at the time that he would have won regardless, even if it was as much as the Tories "losing" than Labour winning.
Click to expand...

I liked John Smith, it was said of him that he could start and arguement in an empty room.
 


JC Footy Genius

JC Footy Genius

Bringer of TRUTH
Jun 9, 2015
10,568
Uh_huh_him said:
Possibly... Possibly not... Who knows what will happen. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
New Labour policies have been roundly defeated in two elections.
New Labour took their core vote for granted in the last election and allowed the SNP to take over the vast majority of their safe seats in Scotland.

Labour have to look at that and make a decision what their policies need to be to defeat the Tories.
I think Corbyn is a good man to have at the helm to start that debate.
Click to expand...


You are right it will be interesting. We disagree about Corbyn but his election has certainly livened up the UK political scene.
 








B

BLOCK F

Well-known member
Feb 26, 2009
6,343
Tony Meolas Loan Spell said:
He was closing the gap, probably also helped that people were getting fed up of Majors "tory sleaze" (ironic because the champagne socialism that followed was rife with it) and the Tory infighting - leadership contests like John Redwood etc.

John Smith was an honest, straight talking politician, a refreshing change at the time. Not quite as left as Corbyn but a "reformer" of the Labour party, making people sit up and take notice, esp the so called "middle England".

I think at the time that he would have won regardless, even if it was as much as the Tories "losing" than Labour winning.
Click to expand...

It was quite a long time ago, but I seem to remember John Smith scaring some of the electorate with talk about sizeable tax increases.
Can any of the politicos on here add to my scant memories?
 


Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,487
The Fatherland




Stato

Stato

Well-known member
Dec 21, 2011
6,581
Uh_huh_him said:
To be honest I seem to remember John Smith as being a long way behind in the polls during his tenure.

I clearly remember the press coverage after his death and being genuinely surprised that the media started referring to him as a potential prime minister and a strong parliamentarian.

I have always felt that John Smith's death and the related press coverage in the period after, changed the electorate's perception of the labour party.
Click to expand...

You remember wrongly. Labour were well ahead in the polls by the time of Smith's death.
 


Uh_huh_him

Uh_huh_him

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2011
10,667
Stato said:
You remember wrongly. Labour were well ahead in the polls by the time of Smith's death.
Click to expand...

Thanks. My memory isn't what it was.

It was definitely the first time I could remember the media talking in positive terms about a labour leader as a future PM.
Most notably there was a concensus that his death had denied the country of a good PM.
 








C

cunning fergus

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2009
4,745
El Presidente said:
The thing that concerns me about the new union legislation is that strikes are at an all time low, so why is the government introducing legislation in relation to Unions if they are not causing work based disruption/defending members rights (delete as necessary).

There are significant structural problems in relation to working practices, low productivity, health, education and infrastructure that the government could be focussing on.

That they choose instead to introduce (or try to introduce) legislation in relation to fox hunting, trade unions, change the way the BBC operates and so on seems to trivialise some major failings and issues in this country. It's as if because they had a surprise victory in the May elections they are celebrating by giving all groups they perceive to by anti-Conservative a kicking.

It does them little credit, they have the mandate under our electoral system to make policy for the first time since 1997 and their approach seems to one of spite, revenge and malice rather than having the courage of their convictions to make policy that will have a positive legacy, regardless of one's political views on them.
Click to expand...

Whilst strikes have been in decline that trend is not irreversible, so what better time to degrade Trade Union powers.

Taking a more strategic view, the developing TTIP trade agreement is pitting the EU Commission and EU Governments against European trade unions.

https://stop-ttip.org/trade-unions-positions-on-ttip-ceta-isds/

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ransatlantic-trade-and-investment-partnership

Given the levels of opposition from the UK to TTIP the UK Government would be best served by dismantling the tools of opposition by the workers now as oppose to leaving it to chance when TTIP becomes law.

Quite sensible really.........unless the unions and people like Corbyn are wrong about TTIP of course?
 


El Presidente

El Presidente

The ONLY Gay in Brighton
Helpful Moderator
Jul 5, 2003
39,705
Pattknull med Haksprut
cunning fergus said:
Whilst strikes have been in decline that trend is not irreversible, so what better time to degrade Trade Union powers.

Taking a more strategic view, the developing TTIP trade agreement is pitting the EU Commission and EU Governments against European trade unions.

https://stop-ttip.org/trade-unions-positions-on-ttip-ceta-isds/

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ransatlantic-trade-and-investment-partnership

Given the levels of opposition from the UK to TTIP the UK Government would be best served by dismantling the tools of opposition by the workers now as oppose to leaving it to chance when TTIP becomes law.

Quite sensible really.........unless the unions and people like Corbyn are wrong about TTIP of course?
Click to expand...

What are your views on TTIP?
 






Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,487
The Fatherland
cunning fergus said:
Whilst strikes have been in decline that trend is not irreversible, so what better time to degrade Trade Union powers.

Taking a more strategic view, the developing TTIP trade agreement is pitting the EU Commission and EU Governments against European trade unions.

https://stop-ttip.org/trade-unions-positions-on-ttip-ceta-isds/

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ransatlantic-trade-and-investment-partnership

Given the levels of opposition from the UK to TTIP the UK Government would be best served by dismantling the tools of opposition by the workers now as oppose to leaving it to chance when TTIP becomes law.

Quite sensible really.........unless the unions and people like Corbyn are wrong about TTIP of course?
Click to expand...

Second sentence. Good work.
 


Ernest

Ernest

Stupid IDIOT
Nov 8, 2003
42,739
LOONEY BIN
A caring Tory

Jeremy-Hunt.jpg
 


C

cunning fergus

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2009
4,745
El Presidente said:
What are your views on TTIP?
Click to expand...

Well, I think Corbyn and the unions have largely called it right so far, with concerns about creeping privatisation and the safeguarding of corporate interests against those of democratically elected governments; see the link with details of the unions concerns.

Then again this is the modus operandi of the EU...........great for capitalists, shit for workers.
 








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