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Graham Roberts - ridiculous Little Englander drivel on Talksport



Chesney Christ

New member
Sep 3, 2003
4,301
Location, Location
are you serious? many countries have had serious crowd problems in and around football for decades. i recall there was borderline state of emergency around some Italian games a few years back with routine rioting, police vehicles being torched. as long as it stays inside a country, UEFA ignores it; if it affects UEFA games they've dealt out wrist slaps for anything from murder to racism. Heysal was a low point on all fronts, but we at least took it to heart and cleaned up our game, unlike the rest of Europe.

Again, a full list of countries who have been thrown out of tournaments for winning them then?
 


Questions

Habitual User
Oct 18, 2006
24,722
Worthing
Yeah, but UEFA didn't care about that. It was just cos English teams were winning. Isn't that right Vegas Seagull, GT49er??

I think you're going to need another break from here now. Why are you bothering ?
 


Chesney Christ

New member
Sep 3, 2003
4,301
Location, Location
are you serious? many countries have had serious crowd problems in and around football for decades. i recall there was borderline state of emergency around some Italian games a few years back with routine rioting, police vehicles being torched. as long as it stays inside a country, UEFA ignores it; if it affects UEFA games they've dealt out wrist slaps for anything from murder to racism. Heysal was a low point on all fronts, but we at least took it to heart and cleaned up our game, unlike the rest of Europe.

Which country was as bad as England in the 70s and 80s then......................?
 


Chesney Christ

New member
Sep 3, 2003
4,301
Location, Location
I think you're going to need another break from here now. Why are you bothering ?

You're right. Banging my head against a right-wing brick wall. Cannot believe this is even a debate.

Would love to see some of the views on here shared with the families of the victims of the Heysel victims.

Some things never change, NSC is one of them....
 








Captain Sensible

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2003
6,435
Not the real one
The reaction to Heysel was the final straw after years of English fans running riot in European cities. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the locals weren't up for it, but it happened time and time again. Then the European cup final 44 get killed live on TV. It's just that in an attempt to stem the hooligan problem UEFA and the government decided on a European ban. As a result our football suffered. It also boosted the hooligan element when England played abroad. There were other countries that had just as bad hooligan issues by the mid 80's but English teams had the problem for 15years previous and then were perceived to be responsible for 44 dying in a European Cup Final. There is no way it had anything to do with who had won the tournaments in the past. To think that is ignoring the facts in place of blind xenophobia.
 


Cheshire Cat

The most curious thing..
Which country was as bad as England in the 70s and 80s then......................?
Mostly it would have been........




......England.

Remember the "English disease"
 




nwgull

Well-known member
Jul 25, 2003
13,653
Manchester
Which country was as bad as England in the 70s and 80s then......................?
They've all had their hooligan problems domestically, or
had fans that would be up for a fight in their own cities - Galatasary for example - but you're right: no other country had, or has had, hooligans that would travel and cause aggro on the same scale as England.

There are some proper lefties on here by the way.
 


mikeyjh

Well-known member
Dec 17, 2008
4,473
Llanymawddwy
I don't know much about Graham Roberts, but to suggest that the ban was anything other than a reaction to the horrendous behaviour of some 'fans' is ludicrous. I now know that Graham Roberts appears on TalkSport though, which renders his opinion null and void.
 


chaileyjem

#BarberIn
NSC Patreon
Jun 27, 2012
13,773
Mrs Thatcher told the FA to remove clubs from Europe before any ban by UEFA was discussed.
Obviously a UEFA ban might have happened anyway but the length and scope of the ban might have been different if it wasn't for the pre-emptive move by the FA under govt pressure.
http://www.theguardian.com/fromthearchive/story/0,,1496054,00.html
The ban was 5 years in the end with Liverpool's ban eventually being 6 years. Liverpool would have been in the European Cup for 3 of those years, Everton twice, and Arsenal in 89/90.
 






chaileyjem

#BarberIn
NSC Patreon
Jun 27, 2012
13,773
The UEFA view at the time as reported by the Guardian
http://www.theguardian.com/fromthearchive/story/0,,1496054,00.html

Mr Jacques Georges, the UEFA president, said: 'The committee will have to judge and they must be decisive. This is not a matter of football but humanity. We cannot tolerate the continuation of this apalling behaviour.'
The UEFA secretary, Mr Hans Bangeurter, said: 'My personal view is that, having written so often about this problem, having warned for so long, the only consequence now can be to suspend, definitely, the club involved. Whether there will be an extension I don't know. Theoretically, it could go as far as suspending the national team from European competitions.
'We have reached the stage now where football is at the crossroads. We cannot and are not willing to let this game be killed by irresponsible elements who have no place in football stadiums.'
He warned that sanctions would be 'extremely severe.'
 


Leyton Gull

Banned
Sep 14, 2015
411
Pretty disrespectful to the victims too IMO....

If Roberts did say that, it is a total disgrace. I cannot believe that you are getting flack for making such a point but society has changed for the worse in many ways. Having said that I'm sure 99.99999% Liverpool supporters are very sorry and would not have done what they did if they knew of the outcome.
 






Seasidesage

New member
May 19, 2009
4,467
Brighton, United Kingdom
If the ban had really been about humanity or justice, then surely the people who declared Heysel suitable for a european final should've been punished? As should the idiots on crowd control. A ban for Liverpool would've have been a reasonable response, but banning all English clubs was clearly political although nothing to do with winning. Liverpool fans behaviour was appalling but the condition of the stadium and the total failure of the policing operation were major factors too.

A ban suited all parties, the Tories were seen to be 'doing' something, the FA were their usual spineless selves and UEFA needed to be seen to act.
 


GT49er

Well-known member
Feb 1, 2009
46,473
Gloucester
Again, you are talking about one-off isolated incidents not a sustained campaign of ongoing problems.
Really :facepalm:
The Italian brand of hooliganism shocking. So is the violence at matches in Turkey, the racism in Eastern Europe. One off? - do you wear the same brand of spectacles as Sepp Blatter?
 


GT49er

Well-known member
Feb 1, 2009
46,473
Gloucester
Yes, that tragic death is the one I was referring to, but obviously my memory was inaccurate - I thought the young man had been stabbed, but obviously that wasn't the case. I was right about the match though - Birmingham vs. Leeds. What's West Brom got to do with it, though? (and no, West Brom isn't in Birmingham, although it is near it).
 




El Presidente

The ONLY Gay in Brighton
Helpful Moderator
Jul 5, 2003
39,689
Pattknull med Haksprut
Yes, that tragic death is the one I was referring to, but obviously my memory was inaccurate - I thought the young man had been stabbed, but obviously that wasn't the case. I was right about the match though - Birmingham vs. Leeds. What's West Brom got to do with it, though? (and no, West Brom isn't in Birmingham, although it is near it).

Sorry my bad. You are correct it was Blues v (Dirty) Leeds.

I was mixing it up with Leeds at West Brom in 1982

http://youtu.be/KLkMu5c-Nfc
 


nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
17,523
Gods country fortnightly
Its typical of TS but will appeal to its audience. Its dire radio for Sun readers.
 



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