pasty
A different kind of pasty
The you shouldn't make statements like
without availing yourself of the facts.
The team f....d Hamilton today. Nothing to do with his driving.
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Monaco GP- who will be on pole?
- Thread starter Marty___Mcfly
- Start date
The you shouldn't make statements like
without availing yourself of the facts.
The team f....d Hamilton today. Nothing to do with his driving.
BensGrandad
New member
The BBC obviously were unaware that he was acting under team orders as they said that it was an unexpected and unnecessary pit stop. So how can I be blamed?
So you believed that, while 14 seconds ahead in the closing stages of a Grand Prix, Hamilton made the decision on his own to just drive into the pits for no apparent reason?
BensGrandad
New member
Like the BBC I thought it was that he considered he had time to get in the pits change his tyres and still come out leading. so he had misjudged it.
Gregory2Smith1
J'les aurai!
very odd,the Mercedes hierarchy obviously favour a German driver,but this was way to public
no doubt Hamilton will be told privately who pays his wages
Verstappen shouldn't of been allowed to shadow Vettel and overtake on blue flags that weren't for him
a loophole that needs closing
no doubt Hamilton will be told privately who pays his wages
Verstappen shouldn't of been allowed to shadow Vettel and overtake on blue flags that weren't for him
a loophole that needs closing
Oh dear. How sad. Never mind.
Aside from all that, that was some impact that Max Verstappen took. A few years ago he'd have broken his legs and a few years before that it would have been a fatal. The fact that he switched off the engine, undid his harness and climbed out is testament to how they design and build these cars.
Max Not-stoppin'
Max Not-stoppin'
Gregory2Smith1
J'les aurai!
I bet those marshalls in the back ground shit themselves
Marty___Mcfly
I see your wicked plan - I’m a junglist.
- Sep 14, 2011
- 2,251
- Thread starter
- #30
From James Allen-
Nico Rosberg took his third consecutive Monaco Grand Prix victory as a certain victory for Lewis Hamilton was a wrecked by a late race strategic blunder that saw Mercedes pit the champion under a late-race safety car that dropped him to third place behind Sebastian Vettel.
Hamilton had led the race without threat for 64 laps but then Max Verstappen collided with Romain Grosjean and the safety car was deployed. Mercedes bizarrely chose to pit Hamilton for new supersofts but when he emerged he found himself behind Rosberg and Vettel, who had opted to stay out. The team had miscalculated the gap Hamilton had to his pursuers, according to team boss Toto Wolff. Hamilton also lost time behind the Safety Car and lost 1.3 seconds in the pit stop as Felipe Nasr came down the pit lane as he was due to leave his pit box.
When the safety car left the track with seven laps to go, Vettel defended hard and despite having new quicker tyres Hamilton could find no way past. Rosberg carved out a healthy lead and marched to his third consecutive Monaco win.
Screen Shot 2015-05-24 at 15.40.30
Afterwards, a clearly upset Hamilton said he could not express his feeling at the outcome, though he seemed to be prepared to shoulder some of the responsibility for the error.
“I can’t really express the way I feel at the moment, so I won’t even attempt to,” he said. “You rely on the team. I saw a screen, it looked like the team was out and I thought that Nico had pitted. Obviously I couldn’t see the guys behind so I thought the guys behind were pitting. The team said to stay out, I said ‘these tyres are going to drop in temperature,’ and what I was assuming was that these guys would be on Options and I was on the harder tyre. So, they said to pit. Without thinking I came in with full confidence that the others had done the same.”
Hamilton added that he felt the victory was his for the taking.
“I had so much pace as I have for many many years, including last year,” he said. “I could have easily had that gap last year as well. Today, I didn’t really have to push too much, I could have doubled the lead if I needed it so on the one hand it’s a good thing that I had that pace and I’m grateful for that. You live to fight another day.”
For his part, Rosberg admitted that he had lucked into his third Monaco win and the German sympathised with his team-mate.
“I’m very, very happy of course. But I know also that it was just a lot of luck today. Lewis drove brilliantly and he would have also deserved the win for sure,” he said.
“Lewis was stronger this weekend,” he added later. “He deserved it for sure and I got lucky in the end there. I don’t even know what happened. We didn’t discuss pitting in the end. It was quite treacherous out there with those hard tyres because they were really stone cold. They were telling me the temperatures, we’ve never ever had those temperatures before I think in those tyres – but did the best I could and managed to bring them back up and push, so that worked out well in the end.”
Screen Shot 2015-05-24 at 16.29.09
After the race Mercedes non-executive chairman Niki Lauda said the error was “unacceptable”.
“It is clear, no discussion,” said Lauda when asked if Mercedes had cost Hamilton the win. “I feel sorry and I apologised to his engineers. This is for me unacceptable. To bring him in was completely wrong.”
However, Mercedes team boss Toto Wolff said that the team would not seek to apportion blame for the mistake.
“We have built the team to what it is today because we stick together and we don’t point fingers,” he said. “Lewis is a great leader and in these difficult moments, you rise even more.”
Nico Rosberg took his third consecutive Monaco Grand Prix victory as a certain victory for Lewis Hamilton was a wrecked by a late race strategic blunder that saw Mercedes pit the champion under a late-race safety car that dropped him to third place behind Sebastian Vettel.
Hamilton had led the race without threat for 64 laps but then Max Verstappen collided with Romain Grosjean and the safety car was deployed. Mercedes bizarrely chose to pit Hamilton for new supersofts but when he emerged he found himself behind Rosberg and Vettel, who had opted to stay out. The team had miscalculated the gap Hamilton had to his pursuers, according to team boss Toto Wolff. Hamilton also lost time behind the Safety Car and lost 1.3 seconds in the pit stop as Felipe Nasr came down the pit lane as he was due to leave his pit box.
When the safety car left the track with seven laps to go, Vettel defended hard and despite having new quicker tyres Hamilton could find no way past. Rosberg carved out a healthy lead and marched to his third consecutive Monaco win.
Screen Shot 2015-05-24 at 15.40.30
Afterwards, a clearly upset Hamilton said he could not express his feeling at the outcome, though he seemed to be prepared to shoulder some of the responsibility for the error.
“I can’t really express the way I feel at the moment, so I won’t even attempt to,” he said. “You rely on the team. I saw a screen, it looked like the team was out and I thought that Nico had pitted. Obviously I couldn’t see the guys behind so I thought the guys behind were pitting. The team said to stay out, I said ‘these tyres are going to drop in temperature,’ and what I was assuming was that these guys would be on Options and I was on the harder tyre. So, they said to pit. Without thinking I came in with full confidence that the others had done the same.”
Hamilton added that he felt the victory was his for the taking.
“I had so much pace as I have for many many years, including last year,” he said. “I could have easily had that gap last year as well. Today, I didn’t really have to push too much, I could have doubled the lead if I needed it so on the one hand it’s a good thing that I had that pace and I’m grateful for that. You live to fight another day.”
For his part, Rosberg admitted that he had lucked into his third Monaco win and the German sympathised with his team-mate.
“I’m very, very happy of course. But I know also that it was just a lot of luck today. Lewis drove brilliantly and he would have also deserved the win for sure,” he said.
“Lewis was stronger this weekend,” he added later. “He deserved it for sure and I got lucky in the end there. I don’t even know what happened. We didn’t discuss pitting in the end. It was quite treacherous out there with those hard tyres because they were really stone cold. They were telling me the temperatures, we’ve never ever had those temperatures before I think in those tyres – but did the best I could and managed to bring them back up and push, so that worked out well in the end.”
Screen Shot 2015-05-24 at 16.29.09
After the race Mercedes non-executive chairman Niki Lauda said the error was “unacceptable”.
“It is clear, no discussion,” said Lauda when asked if Mercedes had cost Hamilton the win. “I feel sorry and I apologised to his engineers. This is for me unacceptable. To bring him in was completely wrong.”
However, Mercedes team boss Toto Wolff said that the team would not seek to apportion blame for the mistake.
“We have built the team to what it is today because we stick together and we don’t point fingers,” he said. “Lewis is a great leader and in these difficult moments, you rise even more.”
Marty___Mcfly
I see your wicked plan - I’m a junglist.
- Sep 14, 2011
- 2,251
- Thread starter
- #31
Seems like they were worried about Hamilton's tyres lasting and thought they had time to pit and come back out in 1st.
Gregory2Smith1
J'les aurai!
yeah,which is a bit strange as it was thought the super softs could do the whole 78 laps
BensGrandad
New member
It appears that was Mercedes thinking also so the bbc and what I posted wasnt so far out as people suggest.
BensGrandad and Bernie Ecclestone: never been seen in the same place at the same time...
maltaseagull
Well-known member
We won't know until the team messes up a winning position for Rosberg that gifts a win to Lewis will we?
Not that it is likely to happen though.
Mo Gosfield
Well-known member
- Aug 11, 2010
- 6,295
You'll see pigs flying before that happens. The team owners want Rosberg to win and they'll pull every stunt in the book to try and make it happen.
Million miles away from saying Hamilton f....d up again
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
Racing car teams really don't give a crap about the nationality of their drivers. Fans might, but Mercedes will just want to win world titles, hence Hamilton's new contract.
Hamilton puts a lot of pressure on his team/engineer during a race. He's either barking at them for talking to him too much, or he's wanting so much information they have to talk in code. Sounds like he was the one worrying about the tyres, afterall the driver could easily say that they'll be fine for the next 12 laps. Even though the team bought him in, he's the one being overly cautious and feeding back to them about the tyres.
A mistake was made, but sometimes I think Lewis outthinks himself in some situations. He did the reverse in 2007 when he lost the title for staying out too long on the tyres and ended up with a DNF because he didn't even have enough rubber to get to the end of the pit entry.
I think the team made the call, but Hamilton probably shares some of the responsibility. If he'd have said, I'll stay out they feel okay, he'd have stayed out.
Hamilton puts a lot of pressure on his team/engineer during a race. He's either barking at them for talking to him too much, or he's wanting so much information they have to talk in code. Sounds like he was the one worrying about the tyres, afterall the driver could easily say that they'll be fine for the next 12 laps. Even though the team bought him in, he's the one being overly cautious and feeding back to them about the tyres.
A mistake was made, but sometimes I think Lewis outthinks himself in some situations. He did the reverse in 2007 when he lost the title for staying out too long on the tyres and ended up with a DNF because he didn't even have enough rubber to get to the end of the pit entry.
I think the team made the call, but Hamilton probably shares some of the responsibility. If he'd have said, I'll stay out they feel okay, he'd have stayed out.
BensGrandad
New member
,
It was originally thought that Hamilton took the decision to go in the pits himself hence it would have been his f..k up, but it now transpires it was done at Mercedes instigation so the onus on the f..k up was on Mercedes not LH.
Marty___Mcfly
I see your wicked plan - I’m a junglist.
- Sep 14, 2011
- 2,251
- Thread starter
- #40
More from James Allen-
NEWS BACK TO PREVIOUS
Hamilton Monaco 2015
POSTED BY: JAMES ALLEN | 25 MAY 2015 | 10:44 AM GMT | 0 COMMENTS
It is hard not to feel sorry for Lewis Hamilton, who saw victory in the Monaco Grand Prix slip away from him due to a bad decision to pit for news tyres behind the safety car with 12 laps to go.
Speaking after the race, both team bosses Toto Wolff and Niki Lauda said that the team had let their newly re-signed driver down, but how do they now seek to make it up to him?
On the plane home last night from Nice, all the Mercedes engineers were travelling together, as usual, and you would be hard pressed to guess which side of the garage had lost and which side had won; the very public error they made clearly weighed heavy on a team that has been together many years and they live in each other’s pockets, so they literally do ‘win together and lose together’.
It’s for this reason, primarily, that any talk of Mercedes deliberately sabotaging Hamilton’s race to allow Rosberg to win falls apart. The entire engineering group, which moves about like a team of footballers, eating together, debriefing together, sitting together every day in their office at Brackley, would all have to be in on it and it just doesn’t work like that.
It highlights the curious dynamic in this sport, with two sportsmen in the same team competing against each other, that they had lost the race, but they also won the race and extended their lead in the constructor’s championship.
Rosberg, Hamilton Monaco 2015
Hamilton was part of the decision making process, as he confirmed after the race, telling the team that the soft tyres were losing temperature and pressure behind the safety car and if there was sufficient gap to easily pit and rejoin on new, warm supersofts for the final 12 laps, it would make sense. The team was protecting itself from a possible move by Ferrari to pit Vettel onto supersofts and then have him attack them at the restart, when he would have been right behind on faster tyres.
We will analyse tomorrow in the UBS Race Strategy Report exactly what happened with this decision and why it went wrong, but the top line is that there was a transition from Virtual Safety Car to Safety car; at the end of Sector 1 of the lap on which he pitted, Hamilton had a lead over Rosberg of 26.802 seconds, more than enough to pit with a comfortable margin. A pit stop at racing speeds takes 24 seconds at Monaco and at Safety Car speeds you only need a gap of around 17s to make the stop and retain position.
What happened was that Hamilton’s Sector 2 time was slower than he or the team expected; he took 53.240 secs to complete that sector, while Rosberg took just 44.5 secs. The gap came down from 26 seconds to just 18.
Hamilton lost time behind the Safety Car, in other words, when it picked him up. He then lost another 1.5secs in the pit lane, that’s how much slower his stop was than his first stop (which had been the fastest of the day). Nasr went past in the Sauber just as he was due to be released, which added a little to the end of the stop.
So he came out behind Rosberg and Vettel.
Mercedes
As soon as that happened, everyone realised that the move had been a mistake, but as Toto Wolff says, the calculations didn’t keep up with the eventualities. Alarm bells should have gone off when Hamilton came through the Sector 2 beam and the gap had been reduced to 18 seconds – this made it a risky move to pit Hamilton. There was little time to think; Sector 3 takes 28 secs to complete across the finish line at Safety Car speeds and so they would have up to 20 seconds before he would need to enter the pits.
Wolff says that the decision to pit was taken, “just 50m before the pit entry”, in other words, mindful of the reduced gap. It was risky.
Add in the fact that once again Mercedes’ pit stop execution wasn’t optimum on Hamilton’s car; the same happened with his ‘undercut’ attempt at the first stop in Spain. It’s fine margins, but as Niki Lauda says, Mercedes should be professional enough to cope with the changing picture and the risks outweighed the potential upside in this situation, “A top team should not make mistakes like this. It was the wrong decision to bring him in and I’m upset about this,” he said. “There was no risk to leave him out and I’m really disappointed. We are professionals and they should be able to switch from one (Virtual Safety Car) to another (Safety Car).”
Monaco 2015
Hamilton’s pain is obvious and he’s entitled to ask, ‘Why do these things happen to me?’ Most fair minded people would feel sympathy for him; he’s the driver who had done everything over two days of qualifying and racing to win the Monaco Grand Prix and he deserved it. He was part of a decision making process, but he has to leave the final decision to the team as they have all the data and the timings at their disposal which he does not.
He took it on the chin after the race in his statements, because he has just signed a new three year contract, one of the biggest in the history of F1 and it’s not a time to set himself up in conflict with the team, which had let him down. They have made it up to him in the past; when Rosberg crashed into him at Spa last year they read the riot act to the German and there was clearly some kind of ‘reckoning’, even if it was just an idea, a gesture, which Hamilton took advantage of to go on a winning streak for the rest of the season.
There is always a question of ‘trust’ in sports teams, especially ones where the two drivers are in competition with each other within the same team. Nothing is perfect in racing, so absolute trust is hard and his trust of their decision making will have been affected, but if he is to win consistently over the next there years – as he has over the last two – it will be because of their correct decision making on many of those occasions, as much as his brilliance behind the wheel.
That is probably all they can offer him by way of consolation this time, but the pain of losing a race in such a way will take time to get over, for driver and team.
NEWS BACK TO PREVIOUS
Hamilton Monaco 2015
POSTED BY: JAMES ALLEN | 25 MAY 2015 | 10:44 AM GMT | 0 COMMENTS
It is hard not to feel sorry for Lewis Hamilton, who saw victory in the Monaco Grand Prix slip away from him due to a bad decision to pit for news tyres behind the safety car with 12 laps to go.
Speaking after the race, both team bosses Toto Wolff and Niki Lauda said that the team had let their newly re-signed driver down, but how do they now seek to make it up to him?
On the plane home last night from Nice, all the Mercedes engineers were travelling together, as usual, and you would be hard pressed to guess which side of the garage had lost and which side had won; the very public error they made clearly weighed heavy on a team that has been together many years and they live in each other’s pockets, so they literally do ‘win together and lose together’.
It’s for this reason, primarily, that any talk of Mercedes deliberately sabotaging Hamilton’s race to allow Rosberg to win falls apart. The entire engineering group, which moves about like a team of footballers, eating together, debriefing together, sitting together every day in their office at Brackley, would all have to be in on it and it just doesn’t work like that.
It highlights the curious dynamic in this sport, with two sportsmen in the same team competing against each other, that they had lost the race, but they also won the race and extended their lead in the constructor’s championship.
Rosberg, Hamilton Monaco 2015
Hamilton was part of the decision making process, as he confirmed after the race, telling the team that the soft tyres were losing temperature and pressure behind the safety car and if there was sufficient gap to easily pit and rejoin on new, warm supersofts for the final 12 laps, it would make sense. The team was protecting itself from a possible move by Ferrari to pit Vettel onto supersofts and then have him attack them at the restart, when he would have been right behind on faster tyres.
We will analyse tomorrow in the UBS Race Strategy Report exactly what happened with this decision and why it went wrong, but the top line is that there was a transition from Virtual Safety Car to Safety car; at the end of Sector 1 of the lap on which he pitted, Hamilton had a lead over Rosberg of 26.802 seconds, more than enough to pit with a comfortable margin. A pit stop at racing speeds takes 24 seconds at Monaco and at Safety Car speeds you only need a gap of around 17s to make the stop and retain position.
What happened was that Hamilton’s Sector 2 time was slower than he or the team expected; he took 53.240 secs to complete that sector, while Rosberg took just 44.5 secs. The gap came down from 26 seconds to just 18.
Hamilton lost time behind the Safety Car, in other words, when it picked him up. He then lost another 1.5secs in the pit lane, that’s how much slower his stop was than his first stop (which had been the fastest of the day). Nasr went past in the Sauber just as he was due to be released, which added a little to the end of the stop.
So he came out behind Rosberg and Vettel.
Mercedes
As soon as that happened, everyone realised that the move had been a mistake, but as Toto Wolff says, the calculations didn’t keep up with the eventualities. Alarm bells should have gone off when Hamilton came through the Sector 2 beam and the gap had been reduced to 18 seconds – this made it a risky move to pit Hamilton. There was little time to think; Sector 3 takes 28 secs to complete across the finish line at Safety Car speeds and so they would have up to 20 seconds before he would need to enter the pits.
Wolff says that the decision to pit was taken, “just 50m before the pit entry”, in other words, mindful of the reduced gap. It was risky.
Add in the fact that once again Mercedes’ pit stop execution wasn’t optimum on Hamilton’s car; the same happened with his ‘undercut’ attempt at the first stop in Spain. It’s fine margins, but as Niki Lauda says, Mercedes should be professional enough to cope with the changing picture and the risks outweighed the potential upside in this situation, “A top team should not make mistakes like this. It was the wrong decision to bring him in and I’m upset about this,” he said. “There was no risk to leave him out and I’m really disappointed. We are professionals and they should be able to switch from one (Virtual Safety Car) to another (Safety Car).”
Monaco 2015
Hamilton’s pain is obvious and he’s entitled to ask, ‘Why do these things happen to me?’ Most fair minded people would feel sympathy for him; he’s the driver who had done everything over two days of qualifying and racing to win the Monaco Grand Prix and he deserved it. He was part of a decision making process, but he has to leave the final decision to the team as they have all the data and the timings at their disposal which he does not.
He took it on the chin after the race in his statements, because he has just signed a new three year contract, one of the biggest in the history of F1 and it’s not a time to set himself up in conflict with the team, which had let him down. They have made it up to him in the past; when Rosberg crashed into him at Spa last year they read the riot act to the German and there was clearly some kind of ‘reckoning’, even if it was just an idea, a gesture, which Hamilton took advantage of to go on a winning streak for the rest of the season.
There is always a question of ‘trust’ in sports teams, especially ones where the two drivers are in competition with each other within the same team. Nothing is perfect in racing, so absolute trust is hard and his trust of their decision making will have been affected, but if he is to win consistently over the next there years – as he has over the last two – it will be because of their correct decision making on many of those occasions, as much as his brilliance behind the wheel.
That is probably all they can offer him by way of consolation this time, but the pain of losing a race in such a way will take time to get over, for driver and team.