Step forward Andy Burnham, British prime minister in May 2020

mikeyjh · May 11, 2015

I nearly voted for Burnham back in '10 but plumped for the eventual winner - Question for me is whether Burnham can shake of his association with the previous government. Jarvis would be an excellent figure head but as already mentioned has ruled himself out. Interesting times ahead.

London Irish · May 11, 2015

Simster said:
I can't help thinking you haven't got a clue what is required to make Labour electable again.

I'm not the slightest bit interested in your little personal huffs - come back when you have any ideas though, eh?

Simster · May 11, 2015

PILTDOWN MAN said:
Looking in from the other side my view is that Labour have got to really appeal to the working people of this country. I don't think they've ever done that. They appeal to the work shy and those career benefit claimers. I don't include those who are genuine especially the disabled.

They need to distance themselves from these people. They also need to appeal to the middle aged floating voters instead of targeting students.

Who can do this unfortunately doesn't want it. Alan Johnson.

So you genuinely believe that 31% of the electorate are work shy career benefit claimers? An interesting view.

I can't honestly say that either party has done enough to rid the country of these people. It's an issue that has been swept under the carpet for too long. Simply cutting benefits doesn't work because it impacts people who genuinely DO need it. Simply increasing benefits doesn't work because it costs the rest of us a fortune, and does nothing to invalidate benefit claiming as a valid career choice. There needs to be a change in culture in sink estates, and this needs cross party cooperation and some fresh ideas in place.

Dick Knights Mumm · May 11, 2015

PILTDOWN MAN said:
Looking in from the other side my view is that Labour have got to really appeal to the working people of this country. I don't think they've ever done that.

Whatever you think of the bloke Tony Blair hit the nail on the head. My wife was expressing the same vew pre-election. They need to be positive and aspirational.

Simster · May 11, 2015

London Irish said:
I'm not the slightest bit interested in your little personal huffs - come back when you have any ideas though, eh?

Bless. I'm genuinely sorry that pointing out your blatant political naiivity and stupidity has caused you such offence. No personal huff here though - I've just got you marked down as a very loud simpleton. Sorry. :shrug:

Titanic · May 11, 2015

Simster said:
Bless. I'm genuinely sorry that pointing out your blatant political naiivity and stupidity has caused you such offence. No personal huff here though - I've just got you marked down as a very loud simpleton. Sorry.

They have been a massive feature of this General Election!

Bold Seagull · May 11, 2015

Titanic said:
They have been a massive feature of this General Election!

As were the polls. :moo:

Bolton va va · May 11, 2015

Simster said:
Ah a clueless northerner with his head in his arse. Why not go and have a look at London's GE results to see how London voted for Ed Milliband before talking bollocks?

It is not "London's champagne socialists" that Labour need to attract, it is middle England - and that includes the swathes of middle Englanders down the road from you in Cheshire.

I was referring to the London's champagne socialists' influence in selecting a new leader rather than London's voting record, & expect that they would favour Chukka or Yvette Cooper over Burnham.

Labour clearly needs to attract middle England voters but its dilemma is how to attract those voters without alienating its core voters....as i suspect Chukka or Yvette Cooper would.

Simster · May 11, 2015

Bolton va va said:
I was referring to the London's champagne socialists' influence in selecting a new leader rather than London's voting record, & expect that they would favour Chukka or Yvette Cooper over Burnham.

Labour clearly needs to attract middle England voters but its dilemma is how to attract those voters without alienating its core voters....as i suspect Chukka or Yvette Cooper would.

OK, I apologise for being a bit rude then. I was wrongly assuming you were berating London's core vote as champagne socialists, when they are the ones who have stuck by the party.

I suspect Yvette Cooper is the only real option, but that alone isn't enough. She'll need to bin some of the old guard, including her own husband. I'm not convinced Balls would have been a bad Chancellor by the way. (He's far more intelligent than Osborne, who I have no respect for.) But that doesn't matter any more, because even if Labour parachute him into parliament in a safe seat, the fact is that the electorate don't want him as a prominent Labour front bencher.

Regardless, I'm actually more interested in how the Liberal Democrats rebuild into a much needed national third force. The country is far better with a strong Liberal mandate, IMO.

PILTDOWN MAN · May 11, 2015

Simster said:
So you genuinely believe that 31% of the electorate are work shy career benefit claimers? An interesting view.

I can't honestly say that either party has done enough to rid the country of these people. It's an issue that has been swept under the carpet for too long. Simply cutting benefits doesn't work because it impacts people who genuinely DO need it. Simply increasing benefits doesn't work because it costs the rest of us a fortune, and does nothing to invalidate benefit claiming as a valid career choice. There needs to be a change in culture in sink estates, and this needs cross party cooperation and some fresh ideas in place.

Of course I don't believe that. But do you believe any of these work shy types would vote for the anyone else (if they voted at all). No is the answer and there in lies the problem for Labour, if they were to attempt a sweeping new policy to rid society of these claimants and get them in to work they'd lose a lot of votes. The Tories have a better chance of doing it as the vote count is irrelevant.

Maggie caused a lot of it by putting virtually whole towns on sickness benefit instead of unemployment to massage the figures.

Cross party cooperation might help but again Labour would not want to be seen to be against the deprived. It's like the NHS, it's been a political football for far too long and should be cross party organised but there's more chance of us winning the league next year..

maltaseagull · May 11, 2015

London Irish said:
The perfect man to make mincemeat of the Cameron/Buffoon Boris reign of incompetence and elitist spite over the next five years.

The NHS will be the No1 issue for the British public and there is not a man in Parliament better equipped and with more passion to lead the fight to save Britain's best loved institution.

Andy will sail through the Labour leadership campaign given all the Tony Blair soundalikes will end up acheiving backing from the Tory press but from sod all else.

Best footballer in Parliament too so shitty rags like the Sun are going to have to think up new lines other than too geeky, too nerdy etc

To my fellow NSC lefties, we've had a few days licking our wounds but enough of that - the fightback starts now and we never give up!!!

The days of the NHS privatising, fox hunt restoring, human rights abolishing shower are numbered

1825 to be exact

London Irish · May 11, 2015

Dick Knights Mumm said:
Whatever you think of the bloke Tony Blair hit the nail on the head. My wife was expressing the same vew pre-election. They need to be positive and aspirational.

But what does that mean? Isn't it just a bland, pointless slogan?

Behind Enemy Lines · May 11, 2015

Labour cannot win if it just aims for its old traditional core vote. Everyone should recognise that by now. No, whoever takes over as leader is has to answer how it appeals to the disenfranchised "have nots" and the "aspirational." Very tricky. In my view, Burnham is likeable and capable but not ultimately not the right man.

London Irish · May 11, 2015

Simster said:
Bless. I'm genuinely sorry that pointing out your blatant political naiivity and stupidity has caused you such offence. No personal huff here though - I've just got you marked down as a very loud simpleton. Sorry.

Nice try - but you know you have nothing to say, just the usual messageboard grandstanding idiocy that is growing ever increasingly sad in a man of your age.

As I said, once you have an actual idea to contribute to this debate about Labour's future, please do share

Dick Knights Mumm · May 11, 2015

London Irish said:
But what does that mean? Isn't it just a bland, pointless slogan?

Not at all. Show all the compassion you like - but how are you going to get those with doubts to put them aside and vote for you ? You have to be positive and show a vision that individuals will be better off with you.

Who is going to vote for Hyypia ?

Simster · May 11, 2015

London Irish said:
Nice try - but you know you have nothing to say, just the usual messageboard grandstanding idiocy that is growing ever increasingly sad in a man of your age.

As I said, once you have an actual idea to contribute to this debate about Labour's future, please do share

Do you even know what "grandstanding" means?

Seriously, I'd find your naiivity quite quaint and amusing if it didn't come with your trademark pomposity, writing off genuine contenders in your usual tiresome misplaced know-it-all manner just because they don't quite fit with your 40 year out of date political hue.

And if you want my ideas and contributions, you only have to read the thread. It really couldn't be more clear.

London Irish · May 11, 2015

Dick Knights Mumm said:
Not at all. Show all the compassion you like - but how are you going to get those with doubts to put them aside and vote for you ? You have to be positive and show a vision that individuals will be better off with you.

Who is going to vote for Hyypia ?

I think you do need detailed policies to show you can make a difference to people's lives. Burnham has clearly said he wants to roll back the internal market in the NHS, this is crucial if we are going to halt the slide towards full privatisation - and he's bravely criticising what the last Labour government did in encouraging that trend.

To a degree all political campaigns are also fought on the level of bland slogans but there needs to be a lot more meat on the bones underneath that.

Buzzer · May 11, 2015

London Irish said:
I'm not the slightest bit interested in your little personal huffs - come back when you have any ideas though, eh?

Don't take it personally but I think you need some new ideas:

London Irish said:
The NHS will be the No1 issue for the British public

Why? It clearly wasn't the number one issue last week, it was the economy. Why would that suddenly change?

London Irish said:
The days of the NHS privatising, fox hunt restoring, human rights abolishing shower are numbered

They're not going away any time soon and if you want to win the next election then you need to understand why people voted Tory and didn't vote Labour (2 issues there).

IMHO, the best thing the Labour Party could do is not rush into a leadership contest. Take 6 months to have a post-mortem - gather as much info as possible about what went wrong, what the real motivations for people not voting Labour were and for that you need to get your mindset away from class-envy or that everyone that voted Tory are *******s because otherwise you'll never get it. I'd also have a debate on what type of Labour Party its members want and then try to reconcile as much as possible the Labour Party policies with the motivations and aspirations of the British voters in general to come up with a platform of policies that they can stand proudly on. Make sure these are policies voted by the members and fully approved by the NEC.

And then and only then elect a leader who believes fully in those ideals. I think it will build consensus, recover morale, stop them from tearing the party into factions. They'd have the moral high ground and could say that they are listening. I can't see any benefit in electing a leader before you know what you want him to stand for.

EDIT - a bit of a tip for you though. Don't EVER ask for Russell Brand's endorsement in the future. And you might want to run any predictions on what will happen politically by NSC's Mustafa first. Whatever he predicts - you can safely assume the opposite will happen.

Biscuit Barrel · May 11, 2015

London Irish said:
The perfect man to make mincemeat of the Cameron/Buffoon Boris reign of incompetence and elitist spite over the next five years.

The NHS will be the No1 issue for the British public and there is not a man in Parliament better equipped and with more passion to lead the fight to save Britain's best loved institution.

Andy will sail through the Labour leadership campaign given all the Tony Blair soundalikes will end up acheiving backing from the Tory press but from sod all else.

Best footballer in Parliament too so shitty rags like the Sun are going to have to think up new lines other than too geeky, too nerdy etc

To my fellow NSC lefties, we've had a few days licking our wounds but enough of that - the fightback starts now and we never give up!!!

The days of the NHS privatising, fox hunt restoring, human rights abolishing shower are numbered

The last time Britain voted in a left wing party was 1974. The "New Labour" victories were achieved when Labour moved to the centre ground. I did not vote for Tony Blair because he was a bit to right wing for me.

I think the only way we have of getting a left wing labour party in power, is to win an election with the promise of centre ground policy and then move to the left once in power. E.g Get an electable person like Blair to win an election, and when in power bin him for a Tony Benn type after the election.

brakespear · May 11, 2015

larus said:
Yep, just like Ed. keep selecting these high class leaders please.

Foot.
Kinnock.
Brown.
Milliband.

Sheer quality....

Michael Foot was a very good politician torn to pieces by the right-wing press, especially The Sun. The rest, maybe

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