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Cold War 2



Chicken Run

Member Since Jul 2003
NSC Patreon
Jul 17, 2003
18,277
Valley of Hangleton
I kid you not, with issues on the Borders of Russia and yet again Russian Bombers in our areas of interest yesterday Putin is truly testing NATO…
 






Surf's Up

Well-known member
Jul 17, 2011
10,147
Here
Not sure this is likely to be a particularly "Cold" war with the way things are shaping up. At the moment only Merkle and Hollande seem to be preventing a military escalation of the crisis with the US itching to providing arms and support to the Ukranians. I can see a point in the not too distant future when the whole thing blows and the Americans and some European countries get more directly involved.
 






studio150

Well-known member
Jul 30, 2011
29,555
On the Border
Unfortunately the worry has to be that the current conflict and the attitude of Russia goes beyond a cold war. If, as has suggested in some news reports, that Russia uses the same tactics from the Ukraine in any of the Baltic states, then the Eu as a whole must respond as this would be an attack on a EU state and the Eu as a whole.

At that time, appeasement along the lines of piece in our time is probably doomed to fail, and a military intervention would be required. Without this, Russia would possibly look to reclaim the whole of the former Soviet Block on a piece by piece basis, as they would (rightly?) believe that the EU and others are not prepared to use force.

This would place the peace of Europe at its highest threat since probably the Cuban missile crisis.

Worrying times
 


GT49er

Well-known member
Feb 1, 2009
46,472
Gloucester
Unfortunately the worry has to be that the current conflict and the attitude of Russia goes beyond a cold war. If, as has suggested in some news reports, that Russia uses the same tactics from the Ukraine in any of the Baltic states, then the Eu as a whole must respond as this would be an attack on a EU state and the Eu as a whole.

At that time, appeasement along the lines of piece in our time is probably doomed to fail, and a military intervention would be required. Without this, Russia would possibly look to reclaim the whole of the former Soviet Block on a piece by piece basis, as they would (rightly?) believe that the EU and others are not prepared to use force.

This would place the peace of Europe at its highest threat since probably the Cuban missile crisis.

Worrying times

Agree with all of this. Very worrying times.
 






Blue Valkyrie

Not seen such Bravery!
Sep 1, 2012
32,165
Valhalla
Unfortunately the worry has to be that the current conflict and the attitude of Russia goes beyond a cold war. If, as has suggested in some news reports, that Russia uses the same tactics from the Ukraine in any of the Baltic states, then the Eu as a whole must respond as this would be an attack on a EU state and the Eu as a whole.

At that time, appeasement along the lines of piece in our time is probably doomed to fail, and a military intervention would be required. Without this, Russia would possibly look to reclaim the whole of the former Soviet Block on a piece by piece basis, as they would (rightly?) believe that the EU and others are not prepared to use force.

This would place the peace of Europe at its highest threat since probably the Cuban missile crisis.

Worrying times


Very worrying.

If Putin sends his little green men across the river to Narva in Estonia, then we are technically at war with him.


So he must be convinced beforehand that this is not something he should instigate.
 


Hyperion

New member
Nov 1, 2010
5,314
Amazing that the Russians are taking exception to Michael Fallons comments. Right, so it was okay to send Russian Bombers over here then knowing full well it would get a response.

They are, like has been said testing the water and currently, I can't see that ending diplomatically
 


Barham's tash

Well-known member
Jun 8, 2013
3,612
Rayners Lane
It's ok though because the Home guard can protect us.... Not even sure that the British Army is even an army at <100k regulars.

It's an interesting dichotemy for NATO et al as this sabre rattling is in direct response to the sanctions imposed on Russia because of the Ukraine/Crimea issue. I think we could easily see an increase in the number of deployed US troops in the UK if things deteriorate sufficiently which would massively p*** of the Great Bear and then bingo Cold War II - the new batch.

Worrying but ultimately much more interesting times.
 




GreersElbow

New member
Jan 5, 2012
4,870
A Northern Outpost
Unfortunately the worry has to be that the current conflict and the attitude of Russia goes beyond a cold war. If, as has suggested in some news reports, that Russia uses the same tactics from the Ukraine in any of the Baltic states, then the Eu as a whole must respond as this would be an attack on a EU state and the Eu as a whole.

At that time, appeasement along the lines of piece in our time is probably doomed to fail, and a military intervention would be required. Without this, Russia would possibly look to reclaim the whole of the former Soviet Block on a piece by piece basis, as they would (rightly?) believe that the EU and others are not prepared to use force.

This would place the peace of Europe at its highest threat since probably the Cuban missile crisis.

Worrying times

Unfortunately, the EU doesn't have a mutual defence agreement. It is in principle, but nothing to support it. The passive German foreign policy has been a detrimental factor to this crisis, combined with their reliance on Russian gas, Russia has all the leverage it needs.

You are right that the EU must respond as one, but it's unlikely. They can't even agree on appropriate monetary policy...let alone defence.

Of course, hypothetically speaking, if we did end up in a war with Russia, nuclear bombs would almost certainly be used.

To help us imagine what kind of destruction that would be caused, someone has created an interactive map. It seems that if London was nuked, we'd be OK on the South Coast.

http://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/

Doubt they would be, Mustafa. Remember the wars between Pakistan and India? Both nuclear armed, allow geographically speaking a nuke from Pakistan to India would essentially be nuking itself. I can't see them being used. Nukes are a very, very good detterence. With NATO's mutual defence agreement, I think Russia wouldn't dare. That wouldn't say they'd roll out equally as nasty weaponry.


However, Mustafa what is your tone on this? As historically, you had been quick to blame the West. Though you appear to have rolled this back. Have you come to realise that Russia has been the aggressor in this circumstance ;)
 








Hyperion

New member
Nov 1, 2010
5,314
Of course, hypothetically speaking, if we did end up in a war with Russia, nuclear bombs would almost certainly be used.

To help us imagine what kind of destruction that would be caused, someone has created an interactive map. It seems that if London was nuked, we'd be OK on the South Coast.

http://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/

I am not sure the capital city of our country being nuked is anywhere near to be considered "Ok". ......on the plus side Croydon will be vastly improved
 

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Blue Valkyrie

Not seen such Bravery!
Sep 1, 2012
32,165
Valhalla
I am not sure the capital city of our country being nuked is anywhere near to be considered "Ok". ......on the plus side Croydon will be vastly improved

London and Paris are probably the last 2 European cities Putin would nuke, as that would mean Moscow being reduced to dust. I think he'd settle for a city in a country which didn't have the ability to strike back.
 




Hyperion

New member
Nov 1, 2010
5,314
London and Paris are probably the last 2 European cities Putin would nuke, as that would mean Moscow being reduced to dust. I think he'd settle for a city in a country which didn't have the ability to strike back.

That's a fair point
 




Icy Gull

Back on the rollercoaster
Jul 5, 2003
72,015
You'd like to think that Europe had advanced beyond the stage of this kind of shit by now. Obviously not.

Just takes the one slightly unhinged megalomaniac unfortunately.
 


Danny-Boy

Banned
Apr 21, 2009
5,579
The Coast
Unfortunately the worry has to be that the current conflict and the attitude of Russia goes beyond a cold war. If, as has suggested in some news reports, that Russia uses the same tactics from the Ukraine in any of the Baltic states, then the Eu as a whole must respond as this would be an attack on a EU state and the Eu as a whole.

At that time, appeasement along the lines of piece in our time is probably doomed to fail, and a military intervention would be required. Without this, Russia would possibly look to reclaim the whole of the former Soviet Block on a piece by piece basis, as they would (rightly?) believe that the EU and others are not prepared to use force.

This would place the peace of Europe at its highest threat since probably the Cuban missile crisis.

Worrying times

Indeed. Strategically the Baltic States are isolated. Can't see Finland helping that much either.

THe railways are still a strategic weapon, not sure but I think Latvia Lithuania and Estonia are still on the Russian gauge of 5' rather than Western Europe's 4'8 and half" (1524 against 1435mm.)
 



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