Religions of peace? A thread for sober discussion.

Questions · Feb 9, 2015

U

Wilko said:
If we approach the scientific question of God then you arrive at the realisation that there is absolutely no empirical evidence whatsoever. An all powerful, omnipotent god that is capable of anything can only speak to a few men in their sleep several hundred years ago. I teach religion day in day out, I have attended hundreds of lectures, read about the subject enthusiastically for years and not one person has ever provided a single, clear piece of evidence that god exists. The best they can come up with is 'It says so in a book'.

As someone else has mentioned, atheism is not based on faith. Faith means to believe in something without proof. Atheists follow scientific, empirical evidence with proof. Quite a difference.

I'm interested in how you can teach religion day in and day out without believing in any of it. I take it you are a school teacher, yes ? I'm not criticising just trying to understand.

Guinness Boy · Feb 9, 2015

looney said:
Thats got be the worst question I have read in a long time, why would bushy convert? if a saudi ex-pat?

To fit in to the society that he chooses to live in. Theoretically. since it was a hypothetical question he answered days ago.

I give up on this thread, wall to wall ignorant drivel so far.

No you don't. You have, in fact spammed it after this post. Showing your ignorance of Orwell, history that is in books rather than transcribed on to the internet and basic spelling and grammar as you went.

Wilko · Feb 9, 2015

Questions said:
U

I'm interested in how you can teach religion day in and day out without believing in any of it. I take it you are a school teacher, yes ? I'm not criticising just trying to understand.

Yes. You do not have to believe it to teach it. In fact, I think those that teach it who are highly religious do so in a very biased way. Religion interests and fascinates me but only in the same way as someone interested in greek mythology. Funnily enough the topics at the moment are about decreasing church attendances, science vs religion and secularisation.

turienzo's lovechild · Feb 9, 2015

Wilko said:
Yes. You do not have to believe it to teach it. In fact, I think those that teach it who are highly religious do so in a very biased way. Religion interests and fascinates me but only in the same way as someone interested in greek mythology. Funnily enough the topics at the moment are about decreasing church attendances, science vs religion and secularisation.

do you teach it in an unbiased way, out of interest?

pastafarian · Feb 9, 2015

Wilko said:
Yes. You do not have to believe it to teach it. In fact, I think those that teach it who are highly religious do so in a very biased way. Religion interests and fascinates me but only in the same way as someone interested in greek mythology. Funnily enough the topics at the moment are about decreasing church attendances, science vs religion and secularisation.

Out of interest how is a science vs religion class received in Kenya,im fairly sure worldwide its in the top 10 for religious populations

lawros left foot · Feb 9, 2015

When I first joined the Navy in the seventies, we had compulsory Church parade on Sunday morning(H.M.S. Ganges). When asked if I was CofE, or R.C., I replied that actually I was an atheist, at which , I was told that wasn't an option, so was I a CofE atheist, or an R.C. atheist.

Guinness Boy · Feb 9, 2015

lawros left foot said:
When I first joined the Navy in the seventies, we had compulsory Church parade on Sunday morning(H.M.S. Ganges). When asked if I was CofE, or R.C., I replied that actually I was an atheist, at which , I was told that wasn't an option, so was I a CofE atheist, or an R.C. atheist.

Judging by your user name I would have gone for RC athiest.

symyjym · Feb 9, 2015

I find religion fascinating in a historical and psychological context, and it always raises more questions than it will ever answer. The fact that “young woman” in Greek was translated to “virgin” shows how twisted the Bible is. Which in itself is interesting.

looney · Feb 9, 2015

Hillian1 said:
Tell George Orwell, he wrote it.

OK, got an ouji board I can borrow?

Hillian1 · Feb 9, 2015

looney said:
OK, got an ouji board I can borrow?

No sorry.

I have a history book and a dictionary though you could use if you want.

:thumbsup:

looney · Feb 9, 2015

lawros left foot said:
When I first joined the Navy in the seventies, we had compulsory Church parade on Sunday morning(H.M.S. Ganges). When asked if I was CofE, or R.C., I replied that actually I was an atheist, at which , I was told that wasn't an option, so was I a CofE atheist, or an R.C. atheist.

Sounds like you were spoilt. Was given choice of Christmas Church service or jail(Guardroom), was also warned "fall asleep, go to jail". Still it was worth it to listen to the RSM barking out a sermon like a drill parade, just managed to keep a straight face.

looney · Feb 9, 2015

Hillian1 said:
No sorry.

I have a history book and a dictionary though you could use if you want.

What are these things you call books?

Green Cross Code Man · Feb 9, 2015

jimhigham said:
That is true but it does not follow that we must therefore consider the existence of a deity a 50/50 proposition. There are all sorts of standards of proof. From my time in government service alone I have worked applying three of them: beyond reasonable doubt (effectively 99.9% certain), a high degree of probability (unspecified but reasonably considered as 75+% certain) and the balance of probabilities (effectively 51+% certain).

We don't possess all the relevant information nor are we ever likely to do so more. However, we are in possession of considerably more information than we were in the Bronze Age and it is reasonable to reach conclusions based upon this. While I consider myself to be atheist you could reasonably label me at least a partial agnostic, as I would categorise myself as about 99% satisfied as to the non-existence of a creator. This is precisely due to that gap in information you refer to.

Good afternoon and may your god go with you. Thanks for keeping this all very civilised.

Thanks. And good post BTW.

symyjym said:
By the very nature of being a scientist they are and have to be open minded about every theory until proved otherwise. Wormholes are just a theory but no one has ever seen one or knows what they look like, but science accepts that they might exist. People who are ridged in their belief cannot conceive the possibility of there being no God and it is based on pure faith rather than a proven fact.

Unfortunately God cannot be proved or disproved, but if it ever is, it is unlikely to be the same one that people have been praying to for the last 5,000 years.

It is not rational or open minded to believe in God 100% without question. Don’t forget that many great thinkers and scientists were put to death in the search for the truth. They are the true Martyrs and Saints of humanity. Would you really like to live in an ignorant world without science, where the world is flat and at the centre of everything?

Personally I love science and I'm married to a science teacher as well. Have you heard of doubting Thomas? He proved quite human in his responses as did other followers of Jesus. I don't really know about other religious texts apart from Judaism/Christianity. Doubt and loss of faith is very often mentioned in the bible as a whole. And I agree, people like Galileo are real heroes of mine. I am religious, but I believe religion is often harmful. Knowledge and discovery can be dangerous, but it should never be suppressed. There is also a striking resemblance in the general timeframe of the creation of the world in genesis. Albeit a naive description of the big bang, evolution, whatever, it is largely chronologically correct and shows a surprising grasp of science.

beorhthelm said:
atheists do not have "faith", one cannot have faith in the non-existance of something. i find it amazing that those with a faith cannot conceive of the absence of faith/belief. and most scientists (especially those of the conventional faiths) would recognise that intelligent design is a fudge and that nothing in the world is designed with very much intelligence.

Faith can mean a complete trust in something. Although atheism is an abstract, it is something which can be believed in. Surely absence of belief is a kind of belief in itself?

Don Quixote said:
Leviticus wasn't a person.

Lol!

pastafarian said:
I am going to make a presumption you are a christian,if this is the case have you not yourself decided to reject Vishnu,Duc Cao Dei,Budda,Fujin,Waheguru and the thousands of other Gods that people worship today throughout the world.What made you choose the particular creator you believe in and reject all the others?

All atheists do is believe in one less God than you do.

That is correct. But although I would not necessarily believe that 'all roads lead to God' as some believe, i take great heart that the bible states that God judges us according to what has been revealed to us. I will not judge others, I am not qualified to do so.

And I love the last statement!

beorhthelm · Feb 9, 2015

Green Cross Code Man said:
Faith can mean a complete trust in something. Although atheism is an abstract, it is something which can be belonged in. Surely absence of belief is a kind of belief in itself?

no it isnt. you wouldnt say the absence of belief in unicorns is a kind of belief. atheism it is not something to belong to, it is very simply the rejection of belief in deity(s). there is nothing more to it.

JamesAndTheGiantHead · Feb 9, 2015

I'm meeting an Imam at Uni on Wednesday as part of a module on diversity. If anyone has any burning questions they'd like me to forward him, I'd be happy to mediate. He's apparently given us the green light for the most awkward questions we can think of, so fire away.

jimhigham · Feb 9, 2015

JamesAndTheGiantHead said:
I'm meeting an Imam at Uni on Wednesday as part of a module on diversity. If anyone has any burning questions they'd like me to forward him, I'd be happy to mediate. He's apparently given us the green light for the most awkward questions we can think of, so fire away.

A very simple one. How does he justify his selection of peaceful verse over the more violent text? I'm not being confrontational. I would genuinely like to know, as it's sort of the point of this thread.

JamesAndTheGiantHead · Feb 9, 2015

jimhigham said:
A very simple one. How does he justify his selection of peaceful verse over the more violent text? I'm not being confrontational. I would genuinely like to know, as it's sort of the point of this thread.

Good question, I'll let you know his response Wednesday!

Soulman · Feb 9, 2015

JamesAndTheGiantHead said:
I'm meeting an Imam at Uni on Wednesday as part of a module on diversity. If anyone has any burning questions they'd like me to forward him, I'd be happy to mediate. He's apparently given us the green light for the most awkward questions we can think of, so fire away.

After the weekend protest by around 3,000 muslims to protest against the defamatory cartoons of Prophet Muhammad, and the 100,000 signatures signed by British muslims and taken to Downing Street.
When will we see a protest and as many signatures presented at Downing Street denouncing the beheading in this country, and the burning and beheading carried out by an extremist group in the name of Islam.

looney · Feb 9, 2015

JamesAndTheGiantHead said:
I'm meeting an Imam at Uni on Wednesday as part of a module on diversity. If anyone has any burning questions they'd like me to forward him, I'd be happy to mediate. He's apparently given us the green light for the most awkward questions we can think of, so fire away.

Why have muslims been expelled from more countries/regions in the last 70 odd years than jews have in the last few Thousand?

cjd · Feb 9, 2015

JamesAndTheGiantHead said:
I'm meeting an Imam at Uni on Wednesday as part of a module on diversity. If anyone has any burning questions they'd like me to forward him, I'd be happy to mediate. He's apparently given us the green light for the most awkward questions we can think of, so fire away.

Does he and his fellow Imams accept the responsibilty for the interpretation of the Koran by their brother savage muslims ?

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