Racism And The Cumberbatch Conundrum

Dick Knights Mumm · Jan 30, 2015

I have long thought Murray's problem is that he is not Roger Federer. I was always surprised at my wife's tennis club how many supported Federer over Murray. They really did not like his perceived surly on-court attitude, in contrast to St. Roger.

User removed 4 · Jan 30, 2015

W.C. said:
Firstly, a big part of him being perceived as 'anti-english' was down to that article. It's been brought up in this thread and it's been brought up countless other times on NSC, just one tiny insignificant speck of the community. And it was wrong. The paper that set him up to say something like that even admits to it. Many people go around repeating the 'fact' that Andy Murray is anti-english based on that.
Secondly, why shouldn't he have supported the Yes vote? It doesn't necessarily mean he dislikes being British. He could be a chest thumping kilt wearing patriot for all I know, or he could have been politically excited by a break from Westminster.
Whichever, personally I think he's been the victim of lazy/snide journalistic caricaturing (is that a verb?) who, once he has really proved he's a top top player, has then had the press wanting to cosy up to him. Ooh sorry about all that World Cup stuff Andy, until you're over the hill....

I don't agree most English support Scottish sportsman now. 20 years ago, yes, but these days you more often hear the Andy Murray style argument, well they don't support us why should we support them.
Not bothered myself, I'm sure Bushy would be pleased to hear I'm more interested in the results of my Dad's country's team to worry what the Scots are up to.

like you know who he is :lolol:

BigGully · Jan 30, 2015

W.C. said:
Firstly, a big part of him being perceived as 'anti-english' was down to that article. It's been brought up in this thread and it's been brought up countless other times on NSC, just one tiny insignificant speck of the community. And it was wrong. The paper that set him up to say something like that even admits to it. Many people go around repeating the 'fact' that Andy Murray is anti-english based on that.
Secondly, why shouldn't he have supported the Yes vote? It doesn't necessarily mean he dislikes being British. He could be a chest thumping kilt wearing patriot for all I know, or he could have been politically excited by a break from Westminster.
Whichever, personally I think he's been the victim of lazy/snide journalistic caricaturing (is that a verb?) who, once he has really proved he's a top top player, has then had the press wanting to cosy up to him. Ooh sorry about all that World Cup stuff Andy, until you're over the hill....

I don't agree most English support Scottish sportsman now. 20 years ago, yes, but these days you more often hear the Andy Murray style argument, well they don't support us why should we support them.
Not bothered myself, I'm sure Bushy would be pleased to hear I'm more interested in the results of my Dad's country's team to worry what the Scots are up to.

I agree with most of that, I dont see why he cant be a proud Scot and by default have at least a inkling of not really liking us all that much, but in reality he would have many English friends and many good experiences of our country, we all have little hidden nationality prejudices dont we ?.

The only conundrum for him and his advisors is his earning power would diminish greatly if he was just a stand alone Scot, so until he is rumbled by those middle aged women that paint a Union flag on their cheeks each June and wave their min union flags then we will never really know what he thinks.

W.C. · Jan 30, 2015

bushy said:
like you know who he is

not bad, not bad

GOM · Jan 30, 2015

daveinprague said:
Didnt the 'Great' in Great Britain come about from the middle ages, when there was a swathe of France that was English?
ie the British Isles were Great Britain, and the French bit Lesser Britain or something?

Great simply relates to the size of the island. As the greatest in size of all the British Isles it is Great Britain. Also why Northern Ireland is not part of Great Britain. (United Kingdom of Great Britain and N. Ireland)

brighton fella · Jan 30, 2015

pastafarian said:
This story really does illustrate how important issues nowadays are relegated to the point where people will stop giving a toss.

How did it come to this that people seem to be offended left right and centre about absolutely everything.

And when did "coloured" become offensive? I used it a couple of weeks ago on here because i thought using the word Black instead would be deemed offensive.

Seems i am back to front.Im not sure i can keep up with the constant changes as to what is or what is not racist or offensive anymore.

can we now expect bans for people using the word coloured on here?

Its all turning a bit farcical if you ask me.

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...loured-gaffe-white-film-industry-black-actors

I am glad that you have brought this subject to light, I got banned from this site for having a little spat with nibble over nothing,,,
admins excuse for the ban was that I happened to use a racist remark ...(.I used the word p*ki ), ...I took my complaint to admin asking them what is so wrong with this word that it cant be used..plus stating the fact that I am british and I do not get offended every time someone calls me a brit.
to be fair to admin they got back to me stating the fact.. zeez are ze rules. and rules are to be obeyed at all times :lolol:

plus my dear mother R.I.P. was jewish and she never minded at all if people referred to her as being a j*w. she could never understand what all the fuss was about and neither can I.
some people really do need to get a life instead of telling people what they can and cant say. what gives them the right to determine what acceptable language and what is not. .

Bold Seagull · Jan 30, 2015

Ignorance really must be a wonderful thing. One day I will give it a try.

Tricky Dicky · Jan 30, 2015

Not read the 12 pages and adds nothing, but it's news to me that the word "coloured" was offensive to anybody. Probably not a word I would use, mostly because I don't think I refer to people by race or colour in any way.

By the way, is it common knowledge that Cumberbatchs' mother is from Brighton ? I know because she was mothers best friend when growing up. She, of course, is an actress too (Wanda Ventham).

brighton fella · Jan 30, 2015

Bold Seagull said:
Ignorance really must be a wonderful thing. One day I will give it a try.

is that directed at me?

Franks Wild Years · Jan 30, 2015

brighton fella said:
I am glad that you have brought this subject to light, I got banned from this site for having a little spat with nibble over nothing,,,
admins excuse for the ban was that I happened to use a racist remark ...(.I used the word p*ki ), ...I took my complaint to admin asking them what is so wrong with this word that it cant be used..plus stating the fact that I am british and I do not get offended every time someone calls me a brit.
to be fair to admin they got back to me stating the fact.. zeez are ze rules. and rules are to be obeyed at all times
plus my dear mother R.I.P. was jewish and she never minded at all if people referred to her as being a j*w. she could never understand what all the fuss was about and neither can I.
some people really do need to get a life instead of telling people what they can and cant say. what gives them the right to determine what acceptable language and what is not. .

I take it this is a piss take. No one can be this stupid.

brighton fella · Jan 30, 2015

Franks Wild Years said:
I take it this is a piss take. No one can be this stupid.

make of it what you like this is all true.
you wouldn't have batted an eye lid had this been from someone else.

Franks Wild Years · Jan 30, 2015

So you really can't see what the difference is between referring to someone who is Jewish as a Jew and referring to someone from Pakistan, or, as happens anyone from the Indian subcontinent, as a P*** ?
If you can't then, well. I don't know. Good luck.

looney · Jan 30, 2015

ThePompousPaladin said:
Your ignorance is ironically a wonderful example of why speech codes are actually useful.
You think 'spastics' are mentally incapacitated, why? Because of how their identity has been abused as an insult?
This is proof of why they had to change their name to cerebral palsy.

This rubbish doesn't actually make any sense. No seriously its gibberish.

ThePompousPaladin said:
.. do you really believe that a significant number of black people aren't offended by the word 'coloured' as their identity?

It seems to me your focussed on hating some principles brought in by the 'bleeding heart' brigade, i could be wrong, but you must see how these codes actually protect vulnerable people from ignorance?

Oh really? They protect people? Well let me eplain a couple of things to try to enlighten you.

Blacks cant swim. Well some can but because of history, culture, their genes whatever a lot cannot swim. They can learn or be taught, any racial diffence is as insignificant as th differences in track and feild ie whites can run and blacks can swim.

You know where I came across this first? On a site called niggermania were the respondents were laughing about "Drowning season", this has come about because of the culture of silence developed by speech codes, sometimes the negative kind of marxist cultral bludgeon of "racism" to create a non-critical atmosphere, followed by lickspittles like you handringing over definitions. Speaking to black people a lot call your antics "pacification", ie warm words to smooth over the real problems.

The second argument is all the victims on the muslim rape gangs who I doubt would have much time for your sensibilities and treading carefully.

So you see how these codes can actually endanger people? Have i dispelled your ignorance? I hope so?

ThePompousPaladin · Jan 30, 2015

looney said:
This rubbish doesn't actually make any sense. No seriously its gibberish.

Oh really? They protect people? Well let me eplain a couple of things to try to enlighten you.

Blacks cant swim. Well some can but because of history, culture, their genes whatever a lot cannot swim. They can learn or be taught, any racial diffence is as insignificant as th differences in track and feild ie whites can run and blacks can swim.

You know where I came across this first? On a site called niggermania were the respondents were laughing about "Drowning season", this has come about because of the culture of silence developed by speech codes, sometimes the negative kind of marxist cultral bludgeon of "racism" to create a non-critical atmosphere, followed by lickspittles like you handringing over definitions. Speaking to black people a lot call your antics "pacification", ie warm words to smooth over the real problems.

The second argument is all the victims on the muslim rape gangs who I doubt would have much time for your sensibilities and treading carefully.

So you see how these codes can actually endanger people? Have i dispelled your ignorance? I hope so?

Hehe, avoiding the tough questions?

Firstly, yes my words are a little mangled over your displaying of ironic ignorance about 'spastics'. Let me attempt to be clearer.

'Spastics' are ok upstairs, they are quite mentally capable. Your ignorance of that, displays how when a word is abused, it picks up connotations and changes meaning. However, the word was originally used as an identity not an insult, 'i am a spastic' would have been something said by many many mentally capable people.
Now to protect those people from abuse and ignorance, they have had the word changed to 'cerebral palsy'. Imagine drawing the short straw and having cerebral palsy, not only would you have to put up with the incredible pain of the condition, the frustration of having a limited lifestyle. You would also have to put up with the ignorance of people like you, because you haven't bothered to learn the difference between an insult and a disease.
And why should you? Hence speech codes, to make you aware.
Now do you understand how they protect people?

Suck it up and be respectful, you wouldn't want strangers coming up being rude to you, treat others how you want to be treated.

Your arguments against speech codes - which in an ideal world we wouldn't have. Seems to mainly be based on not liking those who put them in place. Without much thought to who they are there for. (3rd comment and only now have you mentioned the people they're designed to protect). By all means have a go at the 'lickspittles' and handwringers, the bleeding hearts, i'm not a fan of them. There is much ignorance in their views too, just in a different way from yours.

Your comment about driving 'hate' underground is interesting, but in the words of Miss Swift, 'haters gonna hate'. There's nothing we can do about them. At least the charismatic among them cannot use vile language in public forums to sway the weak minded sheeples amongst us.

My third time of asking you, do you genuinely believe that a significant number of black people don't find the word 'coloured' insulting?

brighton fella · Jan 30, 2015

Franks Wild Years said:
So you really can't see what the difference is between referring to someone who is Jewish as a Jew and referring to someone from Pakistan, or, as happens anyone from the Indian subcontinent, as a P*** ?
If you can't then, well. I don't know. Good luck.

look you idiot p*ki is short for a Pakistani in the same way brit is short for british. why then do brits not get offended when being called a brit .. its a simple enough question? .
said that if someone calls a black bloke a n*ger then fair enough I get your point, but to attach the word racism to the shortening of ones name is at the very least f*cking ridiculous and pathetic..

people like you seriously need lessons on how to grow up, infact sorry mate its not your fault.. its the dangerous b*stards who invented political correctness in the first place who are to blame for this, instead of bringing races/ communities together its made them more divided. any fool can see that.

brighton fella · Jan 30, 2015

looney said:
This rubbish doesn't actually make any sense. No seriously its gibberish.

Oh really? They protect people? Well let me eplain a couple of things to try to enlighten you.

Blacks cant swim. Well some can but because of history, culture, their genes whatever a lot cannot swim. They can learn or be taught, any racial diffence is as insignificant as th differences in track and feild ie whites can run and blacks can swim.

You know where I came across this first? On a site called niggermania were the respondents were laughing about "Drowning season", this has come about because of the culture of silence developed by speech codes, sometimes the negative kind of marxist cultral bludgeon of "racism" to create a non-critical atmosphere, followed by lickspittles like you handringing over definitions. Speaking to black people a lot call your antics "pacification", ie warm words to smooth over the real problems.

The second argument is all the victims on the muslim rape gangs who I doubt would have much time for your sensibilities and treading carefully.

So you see how these codes can actually endanger people? Have i dispelled your ignorance? I hope so?

good post and very well explained,

pastafarian · Jan 31, 2015

ThePompousPaladin said:
My third time of asking you, do you genuinely believe that a significant number of black people don't find the word 'coloured' insulting?

Obviously i cant anwser the question for the person you are directing it at,but when you are referring to black people and if they find it insulting are you referring to UK black people,North American black people,African black people,black people from other regions or black people in general.

The level of what constitutes being insulting or offensive differs globally.

W.C. · Jan 31, 2015

brighton fella said:
look you idiot p*ki is short for a Pakistani in the same way brit is short for british. why then do brits not get offended when being called a brit .. its a simple enough question? .
said that if someone calls a black bloke a n*ger then fair enough I get your point, but to attach the word racism to the shortening of ones name is at the very least f*cking ridiculous and pathetic..

people like you seriously need lessons on how to grow up, infact sorry mate its not your fault.. its the dangerous b*stards who invented political correctness in the first place who are to blame for this, instead of bringing races/ communities together its made them more divided. any fool can see that.

Jesus. Anyone from the UK who thinks Paki is a neat abbreviation is deluded.

pastafarian · Jan 31, 2015

W.C. said:
Jesus. Anyone from the UK who thinks Paki is a neat abbreviation is deluded.

have to agree with you there regarding the UK

yet in the States Pakis or Paks is quite common even for news channels.and no one bats an eyelid

its a global minefield!

pastafarian · Jan 31, 2015

Lower West Stander said:
Sorry. I can't agree with you there at all.

There is still a fair amount of entrenchment in the deep south in the US which is far worse than anything in Britain and as the recent shooting events have shown, racist undertones remain very strong. I live in New York and some of the every day stuff I hear in the street here would never be said across the pond. I just find it ridiculous that someone could be criticised as heavily as Cumberbatch when true racism remains endemic in both countries.

Ive spent a fair amount of time in Florida and i think people would be shocked at the levels of racism there away from the bright tourist lights of Orlando Tampa and Miami beach,i remember a conversation recently with my nephew and his best mate in their flat,a waiters post had become vacant in the restaurant they were both working at near the university,i asked if they were both going to fight each other for it(much better money than busboy),they both laughed and looked at me oddly and his mate said i cant apply for that job .........if you havnt noticed im black.

I doubt people would believe me if i said i had been to beaches near Alabama where there were "unofficial" sections for black people separate from whites known locally as chicken bone beach

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