EU to charge Britain more money due to success of economy....

Herr Tubthumper · Oct 24, 2014

El Presidente said:
Aren't all budgets set in advance though? Certainly all the ones I have seen have been, seems a bit counterintuitive to set a budget in arrears.

Quite. The algorithm for determining the budget was set in stone in advance. In fact Cameron even alludes to this in his speech. If he did not know this was coming then he is even more clueless than we all thought. The EU dont just dream up budgets on the fly.

looney · Oct 24, 2014

nicko31 said:
We are experiencing a short blip of growth largely thanks to our government propping up an already over valued housing market. Meanwhile the Germans aren’t doing as well as the world is going through a slow down and there is less demand for their manufactured goods

Makes perfect senses that when economies growth you pay more, the Germans and French were paying more a couple of years back when they were growing.

Yet again our right wing increasingly euro-skeptic press are hyping things up and we’re increasingly looking like the idiot in the room

The need for financial transfers are supposed to be for countries that are i the single currency, we are not. We shouldn't be part of this BS fine or rebate.

Buzzer · Oct 24, 2014

Herr Tubthumper said:
Quite. The algorithm for determining the budget was set in stone in advance. In fact Cameron even alludes to this in his speech. If he did not know this was coming then he is even more clueless than we all thought. The EU dont just dream up budgets on the fly.

So you are also calling Pat McFadden the Labour Europe Shadow Minister clueless? And you, the arch-Labour luvvie, are also calling Ed Balls clueless in this respect. Mark Rutte, the Dutch Prime Minister is also clueless? And the Italian Prime Minister who described it as a 'lethal weapon' - also clueless? And the Greek Prime Minister whose country has been right royally stiffed by Germany and the EU already and are on their knees. Also clueless.

All of them, whose day jobs are to know about these things weren't aware. But they're all clueless. 4 prime ministers, a Europe shadow minister and a shadow chancellor. Certainly the Germans weren't expecting it - one paper describes it as an early Christmas present. Are the Germans clueless too?

Clearly, the EU has sprung this. Trouble is, it's so palpably ridiculous behaviour by the EU that even you find it difficult defending the actions so all you've got is the usual anti-Cameron stuff, well-rehearsed for occasions like this. You carry on cracking jokes about Little Englanders and clueless prime ministers - there's a referendum coming soon and the ineptitude and continual high-minded inability to understand national sensitivities shown by the EU and their acolytes will surely come back to haunt them.

...And not just in Britain. How do the EU expect Greece to pay? Seriously, HT, how do they pay? Borrow more money from the EU at higher rates? Is that fair? All it will do is add thousands of votes to the likes of Golden Dawn and probably accelerate Greece's exit from the EU too. I'm amazed that you can't see just how dangerous this game that the EU are playing is to stability and democracy within Europe.

Herr Tubthumper · Oct 24, 2014

Buzzer said:
So you are also calling Pat McFadden the Labour Europe Shadow Minister clueless? And you, the arch-Labour luvvie, are also calling Ed Balls clueless in this respect. Mark Rutte, the Dutch Prime Minister is also clueless? And the Italian Prime Minister who described it as a 'lethal weapon' - also clueless? And the Greek Prime Minister whose country has been right royally stiffed by Germany and the EU already and are on their knees. Also clueless.

All of them, whose day jobs are to know about these things weren't aware. But they're all clueless. 4 prime ministers, a Europe shadow minister and a shadow chancellor. Certainly the Germans weren't expecting it - one paper describes it as an early Christmas present. Are the Germans clueless too?

Clearly, the EU has sprung this. Trouble is, it's so palpably ridiculous behaviour by the EU that even you find it difficult defending the actions so all you've got is the usual anti-Cameron stuff, well-rehearsed for occasions like this. You carry on cracking jokes about Little Englanders and clueless prime ministers - there's a referendum coming soon and the ineptitude and continual high-minded inability to understand national sensitivities shown by the EU and their acolytes will surely come back to haunt them.

...And not just in Britain. How do the EU expect Greece to pay? Seriously, HT, how do they pay? Borrow more money from the EU at higher rates? Is that fair? All it will do is add thousands of votes to the likes of Golden Dawn and probably accelerate Greece's exit from the EU too. I'm amazed that you can't see just how dangerous this game that the EU are playing is to stability and democracy within Europe.

As I understand it, Eurostat use a formula and input from member states. The formula hasn't changed, but the input figures have. And it's an annual event and further more the UK has been in discussion with Eurostat about input figures and their measurement for sometime. Someone, somewhere in the government knew exactly what was happening and has been for a few years. It's totally disingenuous to suggest this came from nowhere and the figures were plucked out of thin air in secret from behind a locked door. If all of those people you list truly did not know then they're clearly got their eyes off the ball and if that includes Labour Party members then yes, they must also try harder. My post wasn't about the merits of the payment, more that it should not have come as a surprise. This FT link explains it quite well.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0f8df0c2-5b64-11e4-b68a-00144feab7de.html#axzz3H5edMwZ3

beorhthelm · Oct 24, 2014

Pavilionaire said:
Why doesn't the government simply do some research about whether or not we are financially better off in Europe? I suspect that the free movement of labour and capital both ways has put this country in a far better economic position than if we had never joined the EEC back in 1973.

the research has been done by many a think tank, but its irrelevent: if we were to leave Europe we would negotiate free trade, freedom of movement of labour and captial. with so much trade coming to the 2nd/3rd largest economy in europe and 6th in the world, it would be in their interests to do so. and they get to do what they want in EU without us needleing away all the time. win win for everyone.

Ernest said:
Same principle as Barber trying to charge us more for our season tickets if we got to the Prem.

er... no. its the same principle as Barber charging you more because you got a bonus for hitting your yearly target, while someone else missed theirs and gets to pay less.

melias shoes · Oct 24, 2014

Return of the Rev said:
Thats because we are the idiot in the room! We need our own room with a lock on it.(inside)

Red Side Of Sussex · Oct 24, 2014

Someone asked what we get for our 8 billion smackearoonies.
Well the most visible example I can give has to be the endless car washing stations that every town and city now has.
I tell you what though,those Eastern Europeans can't half polish the old motor up.
Thinking about,it's probably this that has been recalculated into the figures,along with prostitution and other earnings the black economy brings in that have landed us with a 2 billion euro bill.

Seagull on the wing · Oct 24, 2014

nicko31 said:
The problem is only those outside the UK can see the wood from the trees, our press is increasingly dominated by right wing anti-EU propaganda.

Cameron wants to make up the rules as he goes along. Special rules from immigration, human rights, special financial concessions

We probably do need a vote on Europe, then we can decide whether we want to be a bunch little Englanders isolated from the rest or not.

On the subject of the 1.7 billion to the EU. To put it in perspective that 5 days of UK deficit, we've got far bigger issues to worry about than Europe!!!

You are trying to make £1.7b sound peanuts...it is £1.7b ON TOP of what we pay now...if putting my country first makes me a Little Englander...then so be it,I'm a Little Englander. Even with our companies tied up with reams of red tape from Brussels we can still out produce the stagnant EU,who haven't managed since it's being, been able to justiify it's accounts,it's rife with corruption and secret deals.
As for the press being Right Wing...you're having a giraffe...along with the left wing press,you have the BBC who stuff the audience of Question Time with left wingers,who shout and interupt when a Tory or UKIP are trying to put their view across.
I didn't set out to be anti EU,they did that for me. We were sold the idea that it was a Free Trade market...not a political union filled with unelected politicians by 20 odd countries.
The trouble with the Tories...although it has offered a referendum in 2017 if they are re-elected...it is to little to late...we have had a referendum on the AV but something as important as Europe we have MPs who dilly dally and although Labour and Tories have said we will have a referendum both regened when it came to it.
Yours faithfully...Little Englander and proud of it.

daveybgtt · Oct 24, 2014

UKIP will do very well next election, the silent majority who don't argue on football forums like a MONG will see to that.

jcdenton08 · Oct 24, 2014

Herr Tubthumper said:
Yeah, bloody krouts.

PS who are the krouts?

We had quite a reasoned debate in the other thread. But I'm starting to think you're just a troll.

The problem is, people like you, your sort, they bracket everything together and blindly follow ONE ideological template, even if they're wrong on singular issues - and know it themselves.

I'm a LIBERAL straight AGNOSTIC fiscal CONSERVATIVE who is voting UKIP because of IMMIGRATION problems caused by the EU. I like FOOTBALL and THEATRE and GAMING and ART.

People, mate, are individuals and you DON'T have to stick to "a policy" on how to view your life. You know, in your heart, that the point of this thread is absolutely valid, and no "aren't I clever" liberal snarky rubbish will wash. Simply put your hands up, say "this doesn't fit in with my ideology, but yeah, I'm willing to read, listen and learn and I might forget myself for a moment".

You don't need to be a sheep to the liberal-left ideal, any more than the racist idiots we both despise need to claim this as a "win" for them.

Leekbrookgull · Oct 24, 2014

Cameron will pay it,and you won't get the Euro vote should he win in 2015. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29754168

cunning fergus · Oct 24, 2014

El Presidente said:
Aren't all budgets set in advance though? Certainly all the ones I have seen have been, seems a bit counterintuitive to set a budget in arrears.

Sure, but that wasn't the point you were making when you stated that you would expect to pay more tax if you earn more money........as if that was the basis (and therefore justification) for this demand.

The EU budget is essentially fixed and therefore it will require paying regardless of how well you perform because you are measured against peers. Consequently if you and all your peers were performing badly, you could still end up paying more tax if your performance was not as bad as your peers.

So, it's not like paying more when you are doing well you could still pay more if you weren't.

You're not a halfwit, you know this.

El Presidente · Oct 24, 2014

cunning fergus said:
Sure, but that wasn't the point you were making when you stated that you would expect to pay more tax if you earn more money........as if that was the basis (and therefore justification) for this demand.

The EU budget is essentially fixed and therefore it will require paying regardless of how well you perform because you are measured against peers. Consequently if you and all your peers were performing badly, you could still end up paying more tax if your performance was not as bad as your peers.

So, it's not like paying more when you are doing well you could still pay more if you weren't.

You're not a halfwit, you know this.

But the economy isn't shrinking, so you're talking hypotheticals as usual.

Herr Tubthumper · Oct 24, 2014

jcdenton08 said:
We had quite a reasoned debate in the other thread. But I'm starting to think you're just a troll.

The problem is, people like you, your sort, they bracket everything together and blindly follow ONE ideological template, even if they're wrong on singular issues - and know it themselves.

I'm a LIBERAL straight AGNOSTIC fiscal CONSERVATIVE who is voting UKIP because of IMMIGRATION problems caused by the EU. I like FOOTBALL and THEATRE and GAMING and ART.

People, mate, are individuals and you DON'T have to stick to "a policy" on how to view your life. You know, in your heart, that the point of this thread is absolutely valid, and no "aren't I clever" liberal snarky rubbish will wash. Simply put your hands up, say "this doesn't fit in with my ideology, but yeah, I'm willing to read, listen and learn and I might forget myself for a moment".

You don't need to be a sheep to the liberal-left ideal, any more than the racist idiots we both despise need to claim this as a "win" for them.

I was merely poking fun at your misspelling of a mildly offensive term. I don't think this makes me a troll does it now? And for your information I am not following anyone but myself; I follow whatever I choose. Why would I need or want to follow something I don't believe in? I truly feel a united Europe is better and I certainly believe in people who do well paying a bit more than others. So it does fit with my ideology, in fact it fits very well.

Ps why the need to tell me you're into football, gaming, theatre and art?

cunning fergus · Oct 24, 2014

El Presidente said:
But the economy isn't shrinking, so you're talking hypotheticals as usual.

Evidently not, and certainly not in comparison to 19 years of frail performance by that well known economic basket case that is Germany.

And there is the point, once again, this demand is based on the UK's performance against our EU peers.

That is not how you or anyone else in the UK is taxed by HMRC.............as you previously stated.

sir albion · Oct 24, 2014

Herr Tubthumper said:
I was merely poking fun at your misspelling of a mildly offensive term. I don't think this makes me a troll does it now? And for your information I am not following anyone but myself; I follow whatever I choose. Why would I need or want to follow something I don't believe in? I truly feel a united Europe is better and I certainly believe in people who do well paying a bit more than others. So it does fit with my ideology, in fact it fits very well.

And you actually think the EU can work? The EU will never work and will get worse,spain,Portugal,Italy and greece amongst others have super high unemployment,massive immigration issues.Many immigrants flocking from outside the EU to the EU causing massive problems.
Look how good it was in these countries before the EU started with the same currency rubbish.People in Greece etc saw the price of things double over night.You can get free movement anywhere in the world...It's called holidays and work,that's how it should be.

pb21 · Oct 24, 2014

Surely this has been on the cards for months, if not years? The EU doesn't just come up with new rules/laws on a whim, without looking we must have paid extra in the past and possibly benefitted at times? Possibly poor bookkeeping, short-sightedness by the Tories?

Bevendean Hillbilly · Oct 24, 2014

If we agreed to these surcharges then we have to pay it.

Presumably, when it was ratified, things were not looking so bleak in Europe and things here were flatter than now.

The German taxpayers are the ones who have been really clobbered by the crisis in the club med economies whilst we were outside of that. The Germans and the French don't have anyone else to get their money back from apart from us and the Dutch. It was always going to be clawed back somehow.

Buzzer · Oct 24, 2014

Herr Tubthumper said:
My post wasn't about the merits of the payment,

Mine is. Please explain how demanding that Greece find quarter of a billion euros that they don't have in one months time is fair or good for Europe?

cunning fergus · Oct 24, 2014

Bevendean Hillbilly said:
If we agreed to these surcharges then we have to pay it.

Presumably, when it was ratified, things were not looking so bleak in Europe and things here were flatter than now.

The German taxpayers are the ones who have been really clobbered by the crisis in the club med economies whilst we were outside of that. The Germans and the French don't have anyone else to get their money back from apart from us and the Dutch. It was always going to be clawed back somehow.

I see..........how about the EU tightens its belt and reduces its budget.

That after all is the medicine being prescribed in the EU, and particularly the EZ.

Workers there are having their wages cut, and are being made redundant.

How about the EU acts in solidarity with its citizens and reduces its wage bill and largesse?

What do you reckon, would that work?

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