Cameron - what a complete tool

vegster · Oct 23, 2014

The Spanish said:
What's his salary for nominally being in charge of a trillion dollar economy and probably the most influential nation state in the history of humanity? Buttons. There's people on here take home more than him, on his prime ministers salary.

In that case he needs to work harder and get on. The Tories will always help someone who wants to get on in life, especially if they have been to the right schools. I'm sure his huge talents will be richly rewarded in the form of numerous directorships when he has sorted out the global mess caused by Labour.

Chicken Run · Oct 23, 2014

Don Quixote said:
I don't really dislike Cameron, or like him, he just sort of exists. I assume he won't be PM for much longer though.

Now I might be wrong Don, if I am I apologise now but I'm more than certain back in the summer of 2010 you gave the coalition until September of that year before another election would be called?? You assumed then and you are assuming now that we will have a new PM come May next year. Who's it gonna be then?

maltaseagull · Oct 23, 2014

He certainly has his faults but the alternatives are pretty awful too.

supaseagull · Oct 23, 2014

Cameron is in a win win situation.

Even though the Tories are unpopular he know that if UKIP obtain the share of the vote they hope to get in their key constituencies then they should have enough to form a coalition with the Tories.

The Lib dems will be a dead party with half a dozen MPs at most.

In addition, Labour are an ineffective opposition with no captain at the helm and people still don't trust them enough to vote for them.

Because of this, Cameron really is in an envious position because his party will win enough seats to govern again as a majority party even if it's not an overall majority.

Brovion · Oct 23, 2014

Blue Valkyrie said:
Cameron is far too Eurosceptic and anti-Europe in my opinion.

Hope he doesn't get re-elected.

Cameron, like the rest of the British political elite, is pro-Europe. However Simster's point is valid inasmuch as he's making himself look a **** by banging on about renegotiating items that he knows he hasn't a hope of delivering. As to Simster's other point that it's 'not a major issue', hmmm, I'm not so sure. Are they panicking about (and pandering to) UKIP unnecessarily? Time will tell.

Herr Tubthumper · Oct 23, 2014

supaseagull said:
Cameron really is in an envious position because his party will win enough seats to govern again as a majority party even if it's not an overall majority.

I think you need to look up the word majority and see what it means.

sahel · Oct 23, 2014

DavidinSouthampton said:
Not sure about the "this is not a major issue" bit. Although I am a convinced European, it is clear plenty of other people are not.

But I TOTALLY agree that the way Mr Cameron is comporting himself in European Circles at the moment is a complete embarrassment. But is he backing himself in to corners that he feels he needs to back himself in to?

Whatever else Cameron is he is not stupid. So we can probably assume his statements on Europe are part of a deliberate strategy. properly thought through, designed by his advisor Lynton Crosby. He is therefore deliberately backing himself into a corner on EU immigration. Why? Because he sees it as an election winner and he is more concerned with keeping hold of power than holding to any principled position on Europe. He is a "manager" not a conviction politician and this is his way of "managing" the situation. It may well lead to the UK exiting the EU. And whither Scotland then?

BLOCK F · Oct 23, 2014

maltaseagull said:
He certainly has his faults but the alternatives are pretty awful too.

Agreed.
Milliband for PM anyone?

Herr Tubthumper · Oct 23, 2014

sahel said:
Whatever else Cameron is he is not stupid. So we can probably assume his statements on Europe are part of a deliberate strategy. properly thought through, designed by his advisor Lynton Crosby. He is therefore deliberately backing himself into a corner on EU immigration. Why? Because he sees it as an election winner and he is more concerned with keeping hold of power than holding to any principled position on Europe. He is a "manager" not a conviction politician and this is his way of "managing" the situation. It may well lead to the UK exiting the EU. And whither Scotland then?

Your thinking might have some substance if there was coherence to what Cameron is saying but there isnt. He seems in panic mode and is reacting to everything UKIP are saying. Leaders steer the conversation. At the moment Farange is running rings around Cameron. And as for the EU. The Germans were openly laughing at the red-carpet treatment he gave Merkel when she visited London...only to be ignored when it came to the Junker issue. And the dangling of the immigration carrot by Merkel was clearly strategic and again shows up Cameron's naivity as she now has him over a barrel.

Herr Tubthumper · Oct 23, 2014

The Spanish said:
What's his salary for nominally being in charge of a trillion dollar economy and probably the most influential nation state in the history of humanity? Buttons. There's people on here take home more than him, on his prime ministers salary.

?? What?

Hastings gull · Oct 23, 2014

sahel said:
Whatever else Cameron is he is not stupid. So we can probably assume his statements on Europe are part of a deliberate strategy. properly thought through, designed by his advisor Lynton Crosby. He is therefore deliberately backing himself into a corner on EU immigration. Why? Because he sees it as an election winner and he is more concerned with keeping hold of power than holding to any principled position on Europe. He is a "manager" not a conviction politician and this is his way of "managing" the situation. It may well lead to the UK exiting the EU. And whither Scotland then?

Yes, I thought this as well -why would he force himself into a corner, and appear to look stupid. Perhaps he is actually being quite astute, as he knows that the common man or rather (PC)person in the street, is very worried about excessive immigration and rule from what is widely perceived, rightly or wrongly, as unelected, and out of touch commissioners etc etc. The recent elections in many countries, when voters had their chance, showed that the EU AS IT STANDS is not widely popular. Perhaps it might be, if we got back to the original point - simply to facilitate trade and travel. The right to work in any country may be a very laudable aim -the problem is that certain wealthier countries tend to attract more than most and the point is therefore watered down.

Simster · Oct 23, 2014

I'll take back my comment that it is NOT a major issue. Those who have said otherwise, you are clearly correct. To be fair, I hurried my post because my wife was nagging me to get off the computer! What I meant to say was there is no evidence to suggest it is THE most pressing issue, and I'd certainly suggest that the media coverage it gets is way out of proportion to the level of priority.

sahel said:
Whatever else Cameron is he is not stupid. So we can probably assume his statements on Europe are part of a deliberate strategy. properly thought through, designed by his advisor Lynton Crosby. He is therefore deliberately backing himself into a corner on EU immigration. Why? Because he sees it as an election winner and he is more concerned with keeping hold of power than holding to any principled position on Europe. He is a "manager" not a conviction politician and this is his way of "managing" the situation. It may well lead to the UK exiting the EU. And whither Scotland then?

I'd say that is EXACTLY what he is? This is the man who somehow avoided obtaining an outright majority by promoting his shithouse "big society" nonsense instead of delivering the clear and simple classic Tory message of small government, low taxes and good housekeeping. It still beggars belief that he couldn't win a majority when faced with someone as hopeless and disliked as Gordon Brown.

And you think this grandstanding in Europe is part of a plan? Really? Was losing a vote 26-2 also part of this master plan? I think that says all we need to know about his level of influence in Europe. He is utterly embarrassing. And what he is bleating on about is completely and utterly undeliverable.

Let's have a referendum and decide this properly rather than having the prime minister of the country embarrassing himself. I'm utterly f*cked off with the pandering to these UKIP shouty types. Let's have a proper debate, a one year lead up period to campaign in a simple in/out referendum, and when the decision has been made, perhaps Farage can fck off back to his pub to piss all his city-made money up the wall. In the mean time, perhaps the Tories can replace Cameron with someone who doesn't come across like the sort of uppity teenager who thinks he knows it all but can't help getting ink all over his fingers when you leave him alone for half an hour with a biro.

BLOCK F said:
Agreed.
Milliband for PM anyone?

Fair point. Nick Clegg, David Cameron, Ed Milliband - I can honestly say it is a truly depressing choice. For this reason alone, and for the first time, I'm going to vote for the candidate rather than the party come general election time. It's the only way I can justify trotting off to the polling booth.

DavidinSouthampton · Oct 23, 2014

sahel said:
Whatever else Cameron is he is not stupid. So we can probably assume his statements on Europe are part of a deliberate strategy. properly thought through, designed by his advisor Lynton Crosby. He is therefore deliberately backing himself into a corner on EU immigration. Why? Because he sees it as an election winner and he is more concerned with keeping hold of power than holding to any principled position on Europe. He is a "manager" not a conviction politician and this is his way of "managing" the situation. It may well lead to the UK exiting the EU. And whither Scotland then?

That, for the most part, was what I was thinking.

Hastings gull · Oct 23, 2014

Let's have a referendum and decide this properly rather than having the prime minister of the country embarrassing himself. I'm utterly f*cked off with the pandering to these UKIP shouty types. Let's have a proper debate, a one year lead up period to campaign in a simple in/out referendum, and when the decision has been made, perhaps Farage can fck off back to his pub to piss all his city-made money up the wall.

Is the proper debate to which you are referring?

Trufflehound · Oct 23, 2014

I think you'll find the Leatherman Surge is the complete tool:

http://www.leatherman.com/3.html#start=3

21 different uses.

Which is 21 more than Cameron has.

Biscuit · Oct 23, 2014

Not a Tory by any stretch. Most on here will know me as a flag waving labour numpty. That being said I'm glad Cameron argued against the undemocratic election of the EU commission president. It was absolutely the right thing to do.

Cameron may be arguing from a weak footing, but I actually think he's quite good at debates. Can anyone seriously imagine Milliband trying to negotiate anything with anyone? The EU would tear him a new one, lord knows that'd happen if he took on a real badass like Putin. Labour need to dump him asap or they're simply unelectable in my book.

Seagull on the wing · Oct 23, 2014

It still beggars belief that he couldn't win a majority when faced with someone as hopeless and disliked as Gordon Brown.

Ever thought that the Scottish vote and Clegg reneging boundary changes (which Labour put in place during their tenure and gives them a 26 seat advantage) might have been an obstacle to start with...
The EU as a trading agreement was fine...but insidiously politics are being bought in...now it has turned into a juggernaut of undemocratic institution where unelected politicians can lay down laws that superceed our elected Parliament. To the EU we are a cash cow,second biggest contributor.

Diego Napier · Oct 23, 2014

Hastings gull said:
Yes, I thought this as well -why would he force himself into a corner, and appear to look stupid. Perhaps he is actually being quite astute, as he knows that the common man or rather (PC)person in the street, is very worried about excessive immigration and rule from what is widely perceived, rightly or wrongly, as unelected, and out of touch commissioners etc etc. The recent elections in many countries, when voters had their chance, showed that the EU AS IT STANDS is not widely popular. Perhaps it might be, if we got back to the original point - simply to facilitate trade and travel. The right to work in any country may be a very laudable aim -the problem is that certain wealthier countries tend to attract more than most and the point is therefore watered down.

I think you'll find that the original driving force was to create allegiance and a common bond between the major European nations so that another World war claiming the lives of 60 miilion people could be avoided. The principle of free movement of citizens around the EU that has developed from that initial aspiration may throw some people into apoplectic rage but really, it is pretty small beer given that the peace divided has now existed for 67 years (the longest period of time since the Roman Empire).

I think others might also disagree with your musing on Cameron's astuteness and believe that he is indeed driven into a corner. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29708604

Simster · Oct 23, 2014

Seagull on the wing said:
The EU as a trading agreement was fine...but insidiously politics are being bought in...now it has turned into a juggernaut of undemocratic institution where unelected politicians can lay down laws that superceed our elected Parliament. To the EU we are a cash cow,second biggest contributor.

This thread isn't for debating the rights and wrongs of the EU, advantages and disadvantages of EU membership. It is a comment on Cameron's shocking rant and pledge to do something he is simply unable to deliver.

Trufflehound · Oct 23, 2014

Diego Napier said:
I think you'll find that the original driving force was to create allegiance and a common bond between the major European nations so that another World war claiming the lives of 60 miilion people could be avoided.

Very much this.

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Cameron - what a complete tool

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