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Great report from Naylor



LamieRobertson

Not awoke
Feb 3, 2008
46,485
SHOREHAM BY SEA
Just re-read the Naylor piece.

If Bloom and the board are resigned to mid table mediocrity this season, then the thinking must be on giving Sami until the November International break to halt the slide and start recovering.

If that is not happening, get a new man in, give him a budget and the January sales. No pressure on him as long as we don't go down! Then he has had half a season to weed out the dead wood, a full pre season then we can all start again next August! (Better than sacking Sami at end of season, in my opinion)

Which players would you consider as dead wood?
 


SeeGoals

Bloom’n Marvellous
Jan 22, 2009
310
Horsham by the sea
I honestly don't believe Hyypia has got it in him to turn it around. Same mistakes in defence every week. That comes down to coaching.

Is it a fact that our coaching staff are not up to the job! As we know the back room staff is not made up of Sami's preferred choices, I don't want to bring Sammy Lee's name into the equation as that thread has already been done. But looking at Southampton's season so far it cannot all be down to Koeman and Koeman, some of the credit must go down to the additional coaching staff too and that must include Mr Lee.

Where would we be if we had Sammy Lee on board and not Nathan Jones? :shrug:
 


clippedgull

Hotdogs, extra onions
Aug 11, 2003
20,789
Near Ducks, Geese, and Seagulls
Which players would you consider as dead wood?

As a supporter I have my views and I'm sure everyone has their own views! That's not my job to determine. But clearly we have players that don't or no longer have the ability to perform consistently enough for the clubs lofty ambitions. Plus, I'm not holding that view on just this seasons squad either.
 


severnside gull

Well-known member
May 16, 2007
24,540
By the seaside in West Somerset
Good article. I do get a degree of vicarious pleasure from reading the doom laden threads every time we have a bad run but after 55 years of supporting the Albion I am fairly sanguine that we will have good times and bad and that by-and-large we will find our place. Just now, and based on Saturday's performance, I agree that our rightful place is in and around a relegation dogfight. I think tactically we are currently naive and as others have noted - if you are going to push your full backs up into a place where they cannot hope to defend then at least use them. We were beaten by two breaks at pace into space vacated by our defenders and yet our so slow build up rarely put the ball wide. It was all very strange and either the players are confused or the coaches are because what is happening is creating the worst of situations wherein we cannot defend but do not attack. Has Hyppia got the nerve to change "his style"? If not we will have an exciting season for all the wrong reasons. I am not actually too worried about where we compete as long as we do compete - on Saturday we didn't.
The biggest worry however is a rapid decline of bums on seats which will dramatically reduce revenue and end the "premiership ready" dream for the foreseeable future and herald the inevitable choruses of "I told you so" from detractors and so-called friends alike. The downward spiral once it begins is hard to arrest so for me it is time to go back to basics. Get in a big forward for Baldock to play off so he can flourish; speed up the play and allow defenders to run forward rather than stay forward.
Jones is our next manager regardless of whether it is now or November or next year so Hyppia has to show his preparedness to think again or he may as well fall on his sword now as later.
Mid table if we are lucky. A five thousand dip in season ticket sales next year. An even bigger fall when 1901 memberships are up for renewal and they try to hike the prices. For me we have found our level.
 


LamieRobertson

Not awoke
Feb 3, 2008
46,485
SHOREHAM BY SEA
As a supporter I have my views and I'm sure everyone has their own views! That's not my job to determine. But clearly we have players that don't or no longer have the ability to perform consistently enough for the clubs lofty ambitions. Plus, I'm not holding that view on just this seasons squad either.

Ok...since u mentioned dead wood I was interesting on your views of who.....especially as most of the flack currently is against SH ..but I respect your decision not to say
 




Frampler

New member
Aug 25, 2011
239
Eastbourne
Sami might deserve a fair crack of the whip, but can we afford to give him one if it means a relegation battle?

Yes, the man has immense pedigree as a player, but his record as a coach is not great, and our current run of form is worryingly similar to the end of his time at Leverkusen. I can't get it out of my head that this is a man whose team lost 5-0 to David Moyes's Man Utd.
 




JBizzle

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2010
5,797
Seaford
CMS, COG, Colunga, Kemy, Crofts & i would take an offer for JFC if the price was decent - dont rate him

Agree with all of those except Chris O'Grady and JFC. O'Grady made a difference on Saturday and, I've said this before, JFC suffers because he's "tidy" and unspectacular. He keeps things ticking over without creating much, but he's not that kind of player.

To be honest, I'd love to see Ince back in... My line up for Huddersfield would be Stockdale, Calderon (assuming Bruno is injured), Greer, Dunk, Bennett, Ince, Holla or JFC, McCourt, Baldock, O'Grady and Lua Lua.

My instructions would be:

- Lua Lua, stop cutting inside and get to the byline;
- O'Grady, get in the box and Baldock follow in behind
- Calderon & Bennett, curb it. Only one of you gets forward at a time
- Holla, when you take corners, beat the first man, even if you risk it going out the back end
- Stockdale, save something (maybe a bit harsh)
 




Gritt23

New member
Jul 7, 2003
14,902
Meopham, Kent.
To lose the dressing room after 12 league games, that takes some doing, but if true, I agree it's a point from which most managers would find almost impossible to recover from

I would suggest that if we are to hear of "losing the dressing room" this early, then the real problem would be the players being very quick to lay the blame on someone other than themselves. Go a few games without winning, and you immediately blame the manager, and put out "lost the dressing room" crap. That would be the action of gutless wonders ... so let's hope that hasn't happened.
 


Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
16,544
Fiveways
I always find it odd when a manager says 'we didnt do this or that, we didnt get wide enough etc.

What were you doing with the team on the training pitch for the last two weeks then?

TWO WEEKS to prepare, and still the players cant get what the manager wanted.

Worrying....

Regarding width, I think there was a noticeable difference between the Boro game and previous ones. This is because:
-- Calde didn't seem to hug the touchline to the extent that Bruno has been
-- Bennett was cutting inside far too early when attacking
This meant that at times we were far too congested in the middle, and lacked that wide outlet to overcome this. So, I think Hyypia is right to identify that things didn't go quite as well in the Boro game in terms of width.
I also think Naylor's article is a good analysis.
 


Pavilionaire

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
30,521
The last 75% of that article is spot on but I'm concerned about the first 25% - the most important bit.

Naylor mounts a defence of Hyypia's defence as coach - why? Buy doing this he's putting the matter on the agenda when it wasn't there before. He then makes the point that without parachute payment cash Hyypia has to get the best out of what he's got - which he hasn't - ergo we're 20th.
 






Mancgull

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2011
4,696
Astley, Manchester
Regarding width, I think there was a noticeable difference between the Boro game and previous ones. This is because:
-- Calde didn't seem to hug the touchline to the extent that Bruno has been
-- Bennett was cutting inside far too early when attacking
This meant that at times we were far too congested in the middle, and lacked that wide outlet to overcome this. So, I think Hyypia is right to identify that things didn't go quite as well in the Boro game in terms of width.
I also think Naylor's article is a good analysis.
I agree with this and although we didn't play well, I thought that Middlesboro' worked very hard at getting players back behind the ball, defending deep and wide which made it difficult for us to break them down. The key moment was letting in the first goal so 'softly'. It made our task very difficult as Boro then were happy to drop deep and hit us on the counter attack which they did very well, albeit we made it easy for them at times.
I don't think we will come up against many teams as good as they were. Hopefully we can start putting things right tomorrow night.
However, it shows how far we have dipped in capability as a team from the Gus days when the players knew the system inside out and were very well organised.
 


APACHE

LONGTIME DIEHARD
Feb 18, 2011
758
THE PROMISED LAND-SUSSEX
3 months into the season things should be coming together on the pitch even allowing for all the new players, the training ground is no longer an excuse, but the side looks clueless when they go behind and that's mostly down to their own mistakes. What I find a worry is that even with a change in manager and numerous new players we're still seeing the same slow build-up in attack and a m/field which doesn't support the forwards in any numbers. Is our defence so slow it needs 2 defensive m/fielders in front of it even at home and why can't any of the other m/fielders get up with the forwards when we attack. Watch any game onthe FL round up on Sat. night and you'll see 5 or 6 players on the attack around the box but watch the Albion and we're lucky if there's 2 anywhere near the box. To me there's seems to be something very wrong with the coaching and the tactics.
 






FFP is going to be the reason for everything but as others have said plenty of other rivals dont have parachute payments yet do still challenge for promotion and the only way to get these para payments is to get up in the 1st place something that we aint going to do at present.....lacking ambition!!!
 


Seagull73

Sienna's Heaven
Jul 26, 2003
3,382
Not Lewes
Are Middlesbrough receiving parachute payments still? Don't think so, yet they seem to be able to attract decent players that can play at this level, and you could argue that their revenue streams (crowds in particular) are nowhere near ours.

#standstobecrorrectedonparachutepaymentsbit
 


A mex eyecan

Well-known member
Nov 3, 2011
3,277
I always find it odd when a manager says 'we didnt do this or that, we didnt get wide enough etc.

What were you doing with the team on the training pitch for the last two weeks then?

TWO WEEKS to prepare, and still the players cant get what the manager wanted.

Worrying....

more worrying was what SH and the little idiot were trying to do while the players were on the pitch...
I sit just near the dugout and all Jones seems to do is to confuse the players, one point Saturday he stood there making circles in the air with his finger ... Someone near me shouted out asking NJ if he actually wanted the players running around in circles !
 




Pavilionaire

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
30,521
It always seemed weird to me that we identified a need for an experienced No.2, went for one of the best in the business in Sammy Lee then end up appointing Nathan Jones.

Someone like Danny Murphy as No. 2 could make all the difference, I think Sammy has some good attacking ideas but there's a problem with implementation.
 


el punal

Well-known member
Agree with this. Up to Saturday I was of the opinion to keep Sami, but based on the second half performance where the team went absolutely missing at 2 nil down, I am worried that he's either lost them or not able to motivate them. They should not have lost confidence completely at this stage of the season.

What is even more worrying was the dramatic downward slide from two good performances against Cardiff and Watford. At the start of the game on Saturday I was so optimistic that we were going to kick on and turn those good performances into wins. That all went out of the window after seven minutes. We now need decent results in the next three games or we will end up in a relegation free fall.
 



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