The UK is "deeply elitist" do you agree?

bushy said:

So when was the last time a private school paid a dividend ? That's what businesses do. Yes let's make it unviable for a lot of these schools to operate and force more kids to use the state system that their parents are already paying for but not using , let's add even more kids to the register without any extra money to pay for them, typical flawed left wing politics of envy.

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Simster said:

I'd be curious to know what portion of fee paying parents would no longer consider private schooling if they or the school didn't get tax breaks, forcing fees upwards? I know these people are not all millionaires, but money is really not an object for most of them. Being pragmatic and removing any envy (or accusations of envy) from this, the answer to that question should provide the answer as to whether tax breaks are sensible. It should come down to what costs the government more money - the loss of tax income, or the extra burden of those kids to the state, who would go to private schools if the tax breaks existed. I don't know the answer to that question.

Incidentally, why is it that in an industrial powerhouse like Germany, the idea of paying to send your child to a private school is completely laughable whereas here it appears to be something to aspire to for some?

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Simster said:

Incidentally, why is it that in an industrial powerhouse like Germany, the idea of paying to send your child to a private school is completely laughable whereas here it appears to be something to aspire to for some?

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bushy said:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/educatio...he-credit-crunch-is-closing-down-schools.html
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/educ...ing-closure-over-fall-in-numbers-8522282.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/money/...hools-as-the-recession-bites-8099974.htmlWith regards to your comment about Germany , see my post about grammar schools

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bushy said:

So when was the last time a private school paid a dividend ? That's what businesses do. Yes let's make it unviable for a lot of these schools to operate and force more kids to use the state system that their parents are already paying for but not using , let's add even more kids to the register without any extra money to pay for them, typical flawed left wing politics of envy.

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Herr Tubthumper said:

As an aside die Frau works at a fee paying private international school but it is means tested so the rich are, in effect, subsidising the poor. Everyone has to pay but it's a fairly low entry level; cannot remember the exact amount but recall thinking if you have a job it is certainly within scope. The thing which interests me the most is that there is seemingly no issue with very rich and privilidged parents sending their children to a school with the great unwashed. I'm not sure this is, or would be, the case in the UK.

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Simster said:

You've not answered my question at all. These schools are closing because of the downturn in the economy over the past 5 years which means lots of parents aren't able to pay regardless, not because tax credits are being withdrawn. I'm ONLY interested in what that small margin of people is, who will make a decision on whether or not to go private based on whether or not a fee paying school has charity status.


I kind of agree with the grammar school idea - it's not ideal though. In Kent, where that system still exists, the driven parents pay for tutoring to ensure their kids are coached to pass the 11+. I'd be fine with that if grammar schools could be a LOT more flexible on the number of entrants. Instead, it's a total bunfight, which means that talented kids do miss out and end up at the wrong school.

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sahel said:

Oh dear oh dear! That hoary old cliché "politics of envy". The classic rejoinder from people who cannot articulate a proper argument. Do yourself a favour and never use it again

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bushy said:

Fair enough , I'll look for evidence when I have the time , anecdotally I know several sets of parents who struggle with school fees , who knows if they would be able to pay if they were to rise due to schools losing their charity status, now you may not have any sympathy with their plight , but that wasn't the point I was making.

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Simster said:

Obviously I don't have any more sympathy than they would have because I'm struggling to pay the mortgage on my oversized house. And I really don't care whether or not private schools close. There are other schools, private and state, that these kids can attend. We don't live in Kenya where a privately funded school closure means no education.

But I know the point you're making is that some people struggle to pay fees, and might not be able to if charity status was rescinded. So the question is whether the number of potential private school drop outs adding the burden to the state justifies the loss of tax income to the exchequer that the entire school would have to pay.

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bushy said:

It is indeed, and its one I can't be bothered to research !

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Simster said:

Me neither, and I'll bet the Conservatives would never bother researching it either, because any change to the status quo risks annoying their core vote - even if it is the right thing to do.

It's not hard to conclude that they'll do what they need to ensure their well-off natural voters are looked after with these tax breaks. Especially when you consider their half arsed attempt at means-testing child benefit, which affects a lot more people and for whom private schools are completely out of reach.

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Westdene Seagull said:

Interesting thought. The school my children attend(ed) gives out about 5 bursaries a year in a school of 200 children. While not massive it does mean the richer parents are paying for some poorer parents to send their children there. On the reverse side, my partner used to work at Great Walstead school - I name them because you would expect better of a Christian School - and the Head proposed a bursary scheme. The horror and disgust from the parents and governors was heart breaking. Rich Mid-Sussex Christians would appear to object helping those less fortunate than themselves.

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