Ched Evans

nwgull · Nov 20, 2014

symyjym said:
I don't know about that bit. He wouldn't have known if there was any DNA evidence and he could have got himself into even more trouble.

If he'd gone 'no comment' or, like the woman, claimed that he'd been too drunk to remember what happened then he'd have got off without even being charged, as there'd have been nothing to indicate that they'd had intercourse.

symyjym · Nov 20, 2014

nwgull said:
If he'd gone 'no comment' or, like the woman, claimed that he'd been too drunk to remember what happened then he'd have got off without even being charged, as there'd have been nothing to indicate that they'd had intercourse.

If he had said "no comment" and they matched his DNA he would have incriminated himself further.

If she had been running around that night, getting keys off the porter, sneaking into rooms and out via fire escapes and went home leaving Ched Evans to wake up in his own pool of piss he might have been able to have claimed that he could not remember.

Steve.S · Nov 20, 2014

symyjym said:
If he had said "no comment" and they matched his DNA he would have incriminated himself further.

If she had been running around that night, getting keys off the porter, sneaking into rooms and out via fire escapes and went home leaving Ched Evans to wake up in his own pool of piss he might have been able to have claimed that he could not remember.

They would have matched his DNA you are right, but then she was in his hotel room and therefore would have come into contact with his DNA. I would have to bow to Drew on the next bit, but I am sure that they could not get any evidence that he had slept with her. I believe it was his admission that he had slept with her that meant he was charged. I do not think the police could prove it, if he had made the comment, I can not remember. The girl said right from the start and in court that she could not remember.

Husty · Nov 20, 2014

Steve.S said:
I am wrong in thinking that it's in law then. That if a women is drunk that she is unable to give consent.
It's not my view that is wrong or goes against youth culture. Nobody is against young people going out having a few drinks and having consensual sex. Rape is one of the most unreported crimes and its comments like yours who trivilise drinking and sex as part of youth culture. Are you suggesting that the spiking of people's drink and getting them drunk does not happen

So you also think rape is only rape if it's forced.

I've had my drink spiked, I know it goes on, obviously I don't condone it ever. Obviously.

However, my point is I don't see how anyone could look at the facts of this case and come to the conclusion that the girl was raped. Taken advantage of? Yeh probably but there is no evidence that she didn't consent to anything and there is no evidence that either man would have done anything if she had not consented. You might not like the way he acted that night, I'm not here to defend it but I am here to say that what he did isn't what hes been convicted of doing. It's a travesty, and a dangerous precedent for men. I've been out and I've been very drunk and slept with another girl who was very drunk, why should I then be worried that shes going to press charges for rape? I'm not a rapist.

And no, there is nothing in our law that says a girl has to be in a fit state to consent or its rape. Doesn't actually work like that.

clippedgull · Nov 20, 2014

SKY: Sheff Utd 'retract decision' to let him train at the club.

Convicted rapist Ched Evans will no longer be allowed to train at Sheffield United's facilities after widespread complaints.

In a statement, the club said: "Sheffield United Football Club has decided to retract the opportunity for its former player, Ched Evans, to use the Club's facilities for training purposes, as was previously intended.

"The Club initially accepted a request from The PFA (Professional Footballers' Association) for Ched Evans to be able to train. The reaction to this has been at an intensity that could not have been anticipated when first announced."

Husty · Nov 20, 2014

symyjym said:
The law on sexual crime has to draw a line somewhere and Evans, taking the whole series of events into account, in my opinion, was dancing on it.

Disagree strongly with that statement.

Husty · Nov 20, 2014

Steve.S said:
Someone who is underage is a child, how does that work with responsibility. So are you saying the adult only has to take half the responsibility.

Just seen this, really simple. 15 year old girl lies about her age, not the blokes fault. It's really simple.

janee · Nov 20, 2014

As is sometimes the case on NSC, I've been sometimes disturbed by this thread.

All I can say as a woman, is how can you comment on what it must be like to be raped. Imagine being raped by another man, if you have then you can comment, otherwise you really don't have a clue.

symyjym · Nov 20, 2014

Steve.S said:
Well I do not know either, but that is what is posted on his website, can not see why they would lie. I think the point was that she could not remember and there was no evidence of them sleeping together. As for DNA she was in a hotel room that he had booked, so it was stand to reason that they might his DNA on her.

I haven't seen his website, but if they have said that they really are clutching at straws, it sounds flippant and not very well thought out. I don't know how the "no comment" would help them if DNA proved he did have sex with her. He would have probably risked 8 years if he took that option :shrug:

symyjym · Nov 20, 2014

Husty said:
Disagree strongly with that statement.

When have we ever agreed

Weststander · Nov 20, 2014

Husty said:
I've had my drink spiked, I know it goes on, obviously I don't condone it ever. Obviously.

However, my point is I don't see how anyone could look at the facts of this case and come to the conclusion that the girl was raped. Taken advantage of? Yeh probably but there is no evidence that she didn't consent to anything and there is no evidence that either man would have done anything if she had not consented. You might not like the way he acted that night, I'm not here to defend it but I am here to say that what he did isn't what hes been convicted of doing. It's a travesty, and a dangerous precedent for men. I've been out and I've been very drunk and slept with another girl who was very drunk, why should I then be worried that shes going to press charges for rape? I'm not a rapist.

And no, there is nothing in our law that says a girl has to be in a fit state to consent or its rape. Doesn't actually work like that.

Whether she was unconscious, semi-conscious or conscious, and did not consent but Evans still proceeded, that's rape. Independent witnesses saw her in no state to defend herself. To Evans and his arrogant mates, it was easy defenceless 'meat'. Perhaps if and when he gets his job back as a well paid footballer, next time he will stick to willing groupies. As with Marlon King, being a well paid footballer doesn't give them the unilateral right to get whatever they want from any female that takes their fancy.

nwgull · Nov 20, 2014

symyjym said:
If he had said "no comment" and they matched his DNA he would have incriminated himself further.

If she had been running around that night, getting keys off the porter, sneaking into rooms and out via fire escapes and went home leaving Ched Evans to wake up in his own pool of piss he might have been able to have claimed that he could not remember.

They may have matches DNA on her clothing, but couldn't have shown they'd had sex.

nwgull · Nov 20, 2014

janee said:
As is sometimes the case on NSC, I've been sometimes disturbed by this thread.

All I can say as a woman, is how can you comment on what it must be like to be raped. Imagine being raped by another man, if you have then you can comment, otherwise you really don't have a clue.

Has anyone commented on what it would be like to be raped? It's a huge thread, but I've not seen it in any replies I've read anyway.

I don't think that not having been through such an experience precludes someone being able to take part in a discussion on a case either.

symyjym · Nov 20, 2014

Steve.S said:
They would have matched his DNA you are right, but then she was in his hotel room and therefore would have come into contact with his DNA. I would have to bow to Drew on the next bit, but I am sure that they could not get any evidence that he had slept with her. I believe it was his admission that he had slept with her that meant he was charged. I do not think the police could prove it, if he had made the comment, I can not remember. The girl said right from the start and in court that she could not remember.

That's the point though, Evans and his advisors would not have known if DNA was collected via a vaginal swab or not. So to deny sleeping with her would have been a risk.

nwgull · Nov 20, 2014

symyjym said:
That's the point though, Evans and his advisors would not have known if DNA was collected via a vaginal swab or not. So to deny sleeping with her would have been a risk.

He probably would have known that seeing as he used a condom.

Thunder Bolt · Nov 20, 2014

Weststander said:
Whether she was unconscious, semi-conscious or conscious, and did not consent but Evans still proceeded, that's rape. Independent witnesses saw her in no state to defend herself. To Evans and his arrogant mates, it was easy defenceless 'meat'. Perhaps if and when he gets his job back as a well paid footballer, next time he will stick to willing groupies. As with Marlon King, being a well paid footballer doesn't give them the unilateral right to get whatever they want from any female that takes their fancy.

Surely the whole crux of the matter is that he believed she was a willing groupie?

There have been several cases where women have cried rape and it has shown to be false, such as Craig Charles, who had to fight to clear his name. Just today, the 14 year old girl who said she'd been raped at Ovingdean, has admitted she's made it up.

Steve.S · Nov 20, 2014

symyjym said:
That's the point though, Evans and his advisors would not have known if DNA was collected via a vaginal swab or not. So to deny sleeping with her would have been a risk.

Risk what? Just because he is in a police station, he does not have to answer their questions.He is entitled to say no comment, it's for the police to put the evidence before him. No comment is a standard answer given by a lot of people in police stations, does not make any difference to being charged. No comment means he does not wish to comment on it and it's up to you to charge me.

symyjym · Nov 20, 2014

nwgull said:
They may have matches DNA on her clothing, but couldn't have shown they'd had sex.

But Evans would not have known what type of DNA they had or where it was from. If it was DNA from sperm they collected internally from her, it is different to a hair they would find on the bed.

Thunder Bolt · Nov 20, 2014

symyjym said:
But Evans would not have known what type of DNA they had or where it was from. If it was DNA from sperm they collected internally from her, it is different to a hair they would find on the bed.

She didn't know that she'd had sex, she'd wet herself so I would imagine (I don't know) that she'd had a shower the following morning, so there wouldn't have been any DNA. The one thing rape victims cannot do before DNA tests is wash or shower.

nwgull · Nov 20, 2014

Thunder Bolt said:
She didn't know that she'd had sex, she'd wet herself so I would imagine (I don't know) that she'd had a shower the following morning, so there wouldn't have been any DNA. The one thing rape victims cannot do before DNA tests is wash or shower.

And the most important bit: condoms were used and neither man ejaculated anyway - probably too drunk.

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