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Some thoughts on England



W

West Hoathly Seagull

Honorary Ruffian
Aug 26, 2003
3,540
Sharpthorne/SW11
I know I expressed some pleasure that Sami Hyypia's appointment might mean we will move away from sticking rigidly to Spanish-style football. This does not mean, however, that I don't see its merit. It's the rather one-dimensional Barcelona style that I think we need to move on from, as we don't in my opinion have players of the quality needed for it. Both Madrid sides played very entertaining football in their runs up to the Champions League final, and I became an armchair fan of Atletico during the La Liga season.

What I am struggling to envisage though, and this is my main point, is what the reaction would be if we tried to coach kids in the Spanish style here. I'm just trying to imagine the reaction of the "Go on son, le' 'im 'ave it dads as their sons try to work the ball round the pitch in neat triangles. It would have been interesting to see the effect if Oscar had stayed and a group of Spanish coaches had followed him to the Academy.
 




mikeyjh

mikeyjh

Well-known member
Dec 17, 2008
4,490
Llanymawddwy
My problem with the it all is that somehow St Georges Park will be a panacea for our footballing woes, I'm sure it's a lovely facility but not sure how that simply translates in to success. Likewise we always hear about how many coaches there are in Spain, Germany, France etc etc and how we should have more, but to me that still misses the point. Our players need to be coached LESS, they need to learn to be comfortable in making mistakes, play without fear and with freedom and instinct - That's what we're possibly the worst team in the world cup at. I'm fairly certain we'll naval gaze an focus more on coaching and formation yaddayaddayadda.
 






L

London Irish

Well-known member
Nov 25, 2003
21,897
Trapped inside the Project for the New American Ce
Pirlo started his career as a striker but the Italian coaching system refashioned him as a midfield general. I think if Rooney has been born either Spanish or Italian, he'd be running their teams' midfield now but he'll continue to be indulged as a striker here
 




C

CliveWalkerWingWizard

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2006
2,667
surrenden
Is this idea of coaching a red herring ? The kids that are the best get picked up at a young age by the league clubs the coaches at these clubs must be a reasonable standard.
 


Guy Fawkes

Guy Fawkes

The voice of treason
Sep 29, 2007
8,205
Something else that occured to me was that a lot of school playing fields were sold off to developers and that a lot of green spaces within towns and cities have banned ball games. When it comes to hobbies to, we have a lot of choice and with an abundance of video games and film / tv to watch, youngsters may not spend hours and week playing football as there was nothing else to do and develop their skills during this time

Where are youngsters supposed to play and learn before they are picked up by academies? If the youngsters are worse (skill wise) before they start training now than say 20 or 30 years ago, are they going to develop to the same levels as then with coaching or are the early years crucial and being lost to our increasingly lazy culture?
 


B

Brovion

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 6, 2003
19,380
At least this time there doesn't seem to be the usual old canards trotted out. Normally at this juncture it's traditional to say England didn't win because the players "don't care" or lack passion or some other such nonsense. This time there seems to be a genuine acceptance that the other teams were better. Also, except for some squawks form the very stupid, there isn't the usual clamour to sack the manager, because that always works doesn't it? Are England fans finally developing the glimmerings of football intelligence?
 




red star portslade

red star portslade

New member
Jul 8, 2012
1,882
Hove innit
Maybe the FA should take a leaf out of Scotland and Ireland's book. What did those countries do to deal with their problems? They scouted the English divisions to find players with English grandparents, and convinced them to switch allegiences. It got Ireland, a country with a tiny population, and no professional league, to the quarter finals of a World Cup. The FA could scout Spain, Germany, hell, the whole world to find players with English grandmothers. Surely there's Argentine, Spanish, or German wonderkids out there with English grannys. I suggest Rooney could do it. Forget the number 10, or playing left, we would finally have found his best position.
 


drew

drew

Drew
Oct 3, 2006
23,070
Burgess Hill
mikeyjh said:
My problem with the it all is that somehow St Georges Park will be a panacea for our footballing woes, I'm sure it's a lovely facility but not sure how that simply translates in to success. Likewise we always hear about how many coaches there are in Spain, Germany, France etc etc and how we should have more, but to me that still misses the point. Our players need to be coached LESS, they need to learn to be comfortable in making mistakes, play without fear and with freedom and instinct - That's what we're possibly the worst team in the world cup at. I'm fairly certain we'll naval gaze an focus more on coaching and formation yaddayaddayadda.
Click to expand...

So you're critical of the system that lead us to where we are and critical of the system being brought in now and your answer is not to coach players at all. How did you arrive at this wisdom! Which country that doesn't coach players has won the world cup or the their continental championship? Do you think we will win everything if we have a team of 10 ball jugglers on the pitch.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that St Georges Park is the panacea for all that is wrong. It is one measure the FA are taking. I agree that players need to be more comfortable on the ball and try new things and one of the areas where this will help is the support for Futsal, ie another measure being supported by the FA. Mini football is another where the amount of football kids play is controlled and the emphasis is on player development rather than winning.

What isn't going to happen is a massive change overnight. We won't see the effects of these in the 2016 Euros and probably not the next three or four tournaments.
 


mikeyjh

mikeyjh

Well-known member
Dec 17, 2008
4,490
Llanymawddwy
drew said:
So you're critical of the system that lead us to where we are and critical of the system being brought in now and your answer is not to coach players at all. How did you arrive at this wisdom! Which country that doesn't coach players has won the world cup or the their continental championship? Do you think we will win everything if we have a team of 10 ball jugglers on the pitch.
Click to expand...

I'm not suggesting no coaching, clearly - What I'm saying is that (in all sport in this country) we coach people to death, it's all so structured and players don't know how to think for themselves and make decisions for themselves. It's the same in cricket, rugby, football and it probably. The FA have had enough chances to get this right, they've been talking for years and years and it gets worse. I've no confidence that a national curriculum style approach to coaching is going to help one bit.
 




Weststander

Weststander

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 25, 2011
64,066
Withdean area
Not Andy Naylor said:
I think you're very close to the truth here. Our pampered Premier League so-called superstars are told every week that they are football geniuses and believe the publicity, with the result that too many of them feel that the basics are beneath them - look at the way Jagielka and Cahill switched off and didn't cover the possibility of that ball getting a nick off Gerrard.

Tim Sherwood today in the Independent says: "Our concentration levels are poor. Certain players when they train just go through the motions. During passing drills they look at each other as if they are too good for it. Keeping the simple things sharp eliminates mistakes during matches."

Roy Hodgson needs to decide who our match-winners are and then build a team of hard-working, intelligent footballers that will do their jobs - as other international managers have done, without trying to cram 15 or 16 monster egos into a set of 11 shirts.

When Hodgson went to Liverpool he wasn't respected because he was seen as a manager who was okay with small clubs like Fulham or international sides like Switzerland who wanted to punch above their weights rather than massive clubs like Liverpool who deserved better. The trouble with England is we think we are Liverpool. Our international record over the years suggests we are Fulham and Roy should get back to managing as he did at Craven Cottage.
Click to expand...

Hodgson's football at Liverpool was unfortunately safe (but not safe enough), boring, slow and certainly didn't scare opponents.
But with the England position, I don't think Del Bosque, Klinsmann, Low or Deshamps, could do any or much better.
The defensive options have deteriorated - who could argue that Campbell, Keown, Terry, Ferdinand, Cole .... were far better in their prime AT DEFENDING than Jagielka, Cahill and Baines.
Offensively we are more creative with more pace, than we have been for quite some time, but it's coincided with the aforementioned decline in defence and time catching up with Lampard, Gerrard, and (prematurely for his age) in most game now other than some passages of the Uruguay game ... Rooney.
 


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