Above all they're a joke party and will, much to my amusement, take votes off the Tory party. They could be worse.
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Could Nigel Farage end up a great British political leader?
- Thread starter Lenny Rider
- Start date
Above all they're a joke party and will, much to my amusement, take votes off the Tory party. They could be worse.
Fair points all.
D
Deleted member 22389
Guest
I understand voting UKIP will take votes off the Tories. Labour might get back in because of it, which I don't like the idea of.
If the doubters like myself don't vote for something different how can we ever expect a change. All UKIP voters where either Tory or Labour in the first place anyway. If the main parties still can't see what the problems are, then really they don't deserve our votes.
Not exclusively, no. There are some white 'foreigners' they'd keep out too - Romanians / Poles / 'gypsies'.
Is he, though?
Indeed. To deny this is nonsense. We all know it to be true.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
There are areas in the south where housing is far too expensive but that doesn't apply to the rest of the country.
You just need to add in longer life expectancy and despite all the scares around the cost of care, very many of the elderly are able to stay in their own homes.
cunning fergus
Well-known member
- Jan 18, 2009
- 4,745
Absolutely not what I said. I said, figures show, that when you look at immigration as a whole, immigrants to the UK put in slightly more than they take out. It's only a tiny amount but it's still in the black.
I also said, if you go back a few pages, that while immigration is important it's by no means the biggest problem facing this country at the moment.
Machiavelli
Well-known member
I suspect you're probably right but, with the exceptions you point out, their members fail to see that UKIP's policy of targeting EU immigrants doesn't quite fit into such an agenda, and that really what they're after is not anti-EU im(migration), but anti-immigration per se. If they get in power, withdraw from the EU and enact an anti-EU immigration policy you can rest assured that an anti-immigration policy will swiftly follow, alongside an acceleration of the ongoing decline of Britain and its empire.
This.
Once again though, I think you'll find that they would NOT be anti-immigration per se.
Well, actually in their minds they WOULD be - insofar as only certain people would COUNT as 'immigrants'.
Comfortably-off Americans moving here to work, or as a random example, somebody's German wife, living in the UK, wouldn't be 'immigrants', they'd just be 'people who moved here'.
Machiavelli
Well-known member
Can't disagree with this, although we're making a distinction between what UKIP do on the one hand, and what they say and their supporters, members, etc believe on the other hand.
I do think it will be very interesting to see what happens in next year's General Election with UKIP. There's little doubt in my mind that they'll be the biggest party in next month's EU elections. It's just a question of whether those that vote for them stick with them in the national election. They haven't done in the past, but their majority in the EU elections could convince a significant number to stick with them.
GreersElbow
New member
It's seriously concerning when people seriously think this man would make a good politician. He can talk, he can produce a worldy of a speech. But his party's policies are literally drawn from the latest trends on YouGov. The BNP pre-2010 GE did this, they had this big media coverage, with all these polls suggesting they'll win a seat. They targeted Dagenham & Barking constituency with all their resources and came 4th. The media coverage often doesn't reflect the real nature of voting intentions. Same goes with the recent debates, those who are really anti-EU and more than likely to watch and vote in those debates than someone who's either complacent or pro-EU as it is, without resorting to ad-hominem, an obsession for them to blame the EU for all the country's ills.
His latest poster about EU immigration is laughable. EU workers are legally paid the same as us in terms of minimum wage, so where's the proof they're working for much cheaper than we are? If so, then perhaps one could argue is that the average Brit's wage demands are too high and it's more financially beneficial for the businesses to pay the EU worker the minimum wage. However, the so called "free party of free people and free markets" completely contradict themselves, free migration is essential to free markets and access to the world market itself.
75% of laws are made in Brussels, and we're yet to see the evidence that this is the case. Businesses have access to the EU single market, that's over 750,000,000 people. That's 1 common policy for trading standards rather than 27 individual trading standards and 27 potential bureaucracies to go through. Most policies have simplified trading in Europe.
His latest poster about EU immigration is laughable. EU workers are legally paid the same as us in terms of minimum wage, so where's the proof they're working for much cheaper than we are? If so, then perhaps one could argue is that the average Brit's wage demands are too high and it's more financially beneficial for the businesses to pay the EU worker the minimum wage. However, the so called "free party of free people and free markets" completely contradict themselves, free migration is essential to free markets and access to the world market itself.
75% of laws are made in Brussels, and we're yet to see the evidence that this is the case. Businesses have access to the EU single market, that's over 750,000,000 people. That's 1 common policy for trading standards rather than 27 individual trading standards and 27 potential bureaucracies to go through. Most policies have simplified trading in Europe.
Agree with this; Farage ia man with charisma and none of the main Party leaders have it. Charlie Kennedy had it (even if it came from the bottle) and so sadly did Bliar.
UKIP will do wel in Southern coastal areas for the wrong reasons, they tre already winning local Council seats around Brighton. Whether that wil be enough to get Labour back in nationally I don't know, but the Tories would bite the bullet and accept a coalition with UKIP if it kept them in power, but minus DC as Leader - that is if he isn't replaced after the Euro elections this May.
GreersElbow
New member
Speaking as member of the Conservatives, I don't know of any plans to accept a coalition. I'd assume that's IF they win ANY seats at all in the next election, which I somewhat doubt. The mood within the Conservatives is one that we shouldn't form a coalition. He'd be replaced after the Euro elections? Laughable, Cameron is largely supported within the party. Very few actually have the capability of leading, unless of course, you know something us members don't know. The euro elections will be jumped on by the predominant eurosceptics, UKIP are likely to win seats. But will the gain an increase in the national share of votes? We won't know.
Last county elections Labour gained a lot of councils, but they didn't increase their share of the national vote. It was static, the UKIP vote mainly split the Conservative. Which may prove problematic in the next general election. What is for certain though, is that UKIP standing in Conservative targeted seats would mean they only give Labour or the Libdems the chance to gain or hold the seat.
There was a report recently suggesting the majority of UKIPs defected voter base isn't actually from the Conservatives. When I have time, I'll grab that article. It's an interesting read.
I accept polls are wrong sometimes but the latest ones show Labour on around 37, Tories around 35, UKIP around 15% and Lib Dems under 10%. It will be interesting if that is the result in 2015 as to what horse trading is carried out to form a government.
seagullsovergrimsby
#cpfctinpotclub
The only way the Tories can stop the surge in support for UKIP is to get rid of Dodgy Dave and replace him with Boris Johnson. UKIP are not only taking votes away from the Tories they're also making a dent in the Labour and LidDem support too.
seagullsovergrimsby
#cpfctinpotclub
On those ratings Labour would have a 44 seat majority.
D
Deleted member 22389
Guest
Your right UKIP are starting to takes votes from every party. I can see Labour getting in, there will be no change, once people see that I can see more votes going UKIP's way.
Mellor 3 Ward 4
Well-known member
Exactly the reason why UKIP are putting their posters in traditional Labour voting constituencies.