And it said what ?
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Could Nigel Farage end up a great British political leader?
- Thread starter Lenny Rider
- Start date
And it said what ?
daveinprague
New member
Read the Times, I'm in a bar
And I didn't claim anythimg 'explosive, the tweet I posted did.
Its mainly about party, lets say, procedures
And I didn't claim anythimg 'explosive, the tweet I posted did.
Its mainly about party, lets say, procedures
seagullsovergrimsby
#cpfctinpotclub
The Times online is behind a paywall , 99.9% of its articles are only available with a subscription. The other alternative is to buy a print version of the paper and most shops only order enough copies to cover pre-paid and regular customers.
I'm not going to buy the rag just to read some made story. Your post doesn't indicate it was a tweet nor does it say who tweeted it. Yet you posted it with your usual anti-UKIP glee. Given you've not managed to post an equally gleeful post about the new "explosive" details would suggest there weren't really any - after all, normally you wouldn't lose a minute in posting such drivel on here.
mikeyjh
Well-known member
Tell you one thing, the cracks are starting to appear in Farage's facade of being a credible leader [video]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27115043[/video]
Gullflyinghigh
Registered User
- Apr 23, 2012
- 4,279
Beyond him doing something utterly off the wall I can't imagine many stories will now change how people see Farage/UKIP. Those that already support him/UKIP aren't going to change their minds (haven't so far after all) and those that don't won't really care.
Had an interesting discussion with a friends grandparents the other day, who were convinced that UKIP is the only way to save jobs for the 'right people'. It was a little bit painful to listen to if I'm honest.
mikeyjh
Well-known member
I don't know, there must be a number of people who are wavering and while you're right that this isn't got to change convinced people's minds, it's going to plant a seed in those with a more rational outlook.
To your second point, I found out recently that my mum buys the daily mail
Gullflyinghigh
Registered User
- Apr 23, 2012
- 4,279
I don't know, there must be a number of people who are wavering and while you're right that this isn't got to change convinced people's minds, it's going to plant a seed in those with a more rational outlook.
To your second point, I found out recently that my mum buys the daily mail
Rational outlook? Politics? I don't think you'll ever get a consensus on what that would look like. Part of the fun of it all really.
I can't think of anyone in my family (other than me) that doesn't get/read it, has no bearing on any of their political views though. Hell, I read it (as it was in the house) for years when I was younger and it had no lasting impact on my world view. Never hurts to see things through different eyes either...
D
Deleted member 22389
Guest
I don't know, there must be a number of people who are wavering and while you're right that this isn't got to change convinced people's minds, it's going to plant a seed in those with a more rational outlook.
To your second point, I found out recently that my mum buys the daily mail
You can't fix some of the problems in the country without first fixing some of the problems that are causing it.
Here is UKIPs stand on Immigration, this makes sense to me. There is nothig racist, xenophobic about it. It's common sense.
Why can't the party I used to vote for Labour be more like this. They caused most of this crap in the first place.
• Regain control of our borders and of immigration - only possible by leaving the EU.
• Immigrants must financially support themselves and their dependents for 5 years. This means private health insurance (except emergency medical care), private education and private housing - they should pay into the pot before they take out of it.
• A points-based visa system and time-limited work permits.
• Proof of private health insurance must be a precondition for immigrants and tourists to enter the UK.
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Is immigration a massive problem though? Is it so big that we should risk losing all the benefits of being part of the EU?
People talk all the time about mass-immigration, and I really don't think it's the problem it's being made out as. The fact is UKIP quote millions but the reality is thousands. Independent studies have also shown that immigrants make this country money - admittedly not much but more than they're costing us. Basically, what I'm saying here is is immigration that big a problem or are immigrants the easiest available scapegoats while we ignore the real problems facing this country i.e the massive housing crisis, backdoor privatization of the NHS and fragile economy.
I read about that this morning. Funny.
What a fcking hypocrite.
Why don't UKIP and all the other right of centre parties just cut to the chase, and admit that when they say 'foreigners' they actually mean 'some TYPES of foreigners'.
D
Deleted member 22389
Guest
UKIP quote millions, they are right here. The door is open to millions of people who are members of the EU, we can't control that and this is where the system is wrong. The housing shortage is a mixture of both, a lack of house building, however we wouldn't need to be building on the scales quoted if we hadn't have let so many people here in the first place, and we hadn't let rich foreign investors price people out of the market in places like London. That's created a wave of people having to move out of places like London, which in turn has created pressure in other areas of the country. I'm not scapegoating immigrants but is hasn't helped the situation and I don't see how it is going to make this country any wealthier, richer as we keep being told.
Surely Immigration is also a part of the housing crisis and NHS ..
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
The housing crisis is slightly misleading I think. Decades ago, people lived with their parents until they could afford to buy (it generally took two people to afford a mortgage so therefore done via marriage or living together) or earned enough money to pay rent. There were less houses because of the war although in the 60s very inferior flats were thrown together as a 'solution'
As people are far more mobile and many more going to university now, there is a greater demand for housing whether rented or bought. Families splitting up are another cause. There are more single people living alone than every before. Immigration is not the main cause.
I find it very worrying when politicians blame immigrants for the wrongs in society where economics are more to blame. That sounds very clumsy but I am not that articulate in expressing what I mean.
As people are far more mobile and many more going to university now, there is a greater demand for housing whether rented or bought. Families splitting up are another cause. There are more single people living alone than every before. Immigration is not the main cause.
I find it very worrying when politicians blame immigrants for the wrongs in society where economics are more to blame. That sounds very clumsy but I am not that articulate in expressing what I mean.
Twenty-odd million was quoted. He may as well have said 485 million! The truth is only about 70,000 actually did come. It's pure hyperbole and undermines the debate. Britain's birthrate increases no doubt swamps that number.
The housing crises isn't caused by immigration. Do you honestly believe that hardworking young families can't afford a house because the immigrants have taken them all? Or because a housing bubble, fueled by cheap bank loans and 5% deposit schemes have pushed the average house price well out of sync to the salary/affordability of the average young person? If you chucked every legal (and illegal) immigrant out of the country right now, there would be more housing, but not enough to significantly reduce it's cost. That's the truth of it.
D
Deleted member 22389
Guest
It's both in my opinion. Economics fighting against the number of people trying to find the right balance. At the moment we don't have the right the balance.
I'm not convinced you're correct with that last bit. While I agree Farage was a bit clumsy in that "interview" it wouldn't change my mind. More so, the more I see UKIP attacked the more I'm willing I am to consider voting for them. I believe in CONTROLLED immigration ( Oz style ) yet I've been called a xenophobe and racist. The muck raking against UKIP and it's supporters is more in excess of anything you see against the other parties.
What did Robinson expect him to say for heavens sake ? I wonder if he'd like to carry out a similar aggressive interview with the Kinnocks who, despite having a history of wanting out of the EU and it's previous guises, have benefited personally rather well from it.
D
Deleted member 22389
Guest
70,000 since January that's still far too many people. 70,000 should be a yearly figure. The 70,000 figure does not include the people that have arrived from outside the EU, so once again we could be looking at 250,000 people coming here
How many people have left to go and work in places like Romania, Bulgaria, I bet it's not 70,000 and here lies the problem. It needs to be managed, so you get right balance of people and most importantly skills.
A small part of the problem but not a massive part. Can you imagine how our hospitals would run without the tens of thousands of perfectly legal, highly educated immigrants that work in them?
We've got more families in this country than ever before using food banks. That's not the immigrants fault.
We've got an aging population and a skills shortage. That's not the immigrants fault.
We've got a back door privatization of the NHS. That's not the immigrants fault.
We've got fuel bills at record levels. That's not the immigrants fault.
What about the treatment of disabled people in this country? What about Brian Mcardle? Paralysed down one side, blind in one eye and couldn't speak. He died one day after being found fit for work by Atos.
I'm not saying we shouldn't or couldn't be managing immigration better, but why this debate is being had over any of the ills facing this country right now is beyond me.
Not a problem if they work, and bring more to country than they take away. Which, as things stand, they do.
The fact is many, many more have the right to come here but don't. Why would they pick us over Germany for example? They wouldn't and they don't.